Cara Tyler on Promoting Child Safety: Strategies for Global Workers / Back Channel with Foth
Cara Tyler joins us on the podcast today to discuss Child Safety. Key Takeaways are:
- Dick Foth emphasizes the importance of discerning when to apply transformative changes versus merely making superficial adjustments, akin to choosing between using an ax or pruning shears.
- Listeners are encouraged to engage in thoughtful conversations regarding child safety, recognizing that children are a vulnerable population needing protection from various forms of harm.
- The discussion highlights the necessity for adults to be aware of their authority over children, understanding how power dynamics can influence interactions and the importance of maintaining transparency.
- The necessity of open dialogue within families about challenging topics such as child safety is underscored, equipping parents to foster an environment of trust and awareness among their children.
Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker A:So excited to be back with our friend Dick Folk on another session of Back Channel with Folk.
Speaker A:And we're going to jump into our interview.
Speaker A:Dick, welcome back to the podcast.
Speaker B:Here we are again, Dick.
Speaker B:How about that?
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm back.
Speaker A:And then this time I'm actually, I, I'm taking one of the questions from mine, so I'm going to insert one of my questions into this.
Speaker A:So, so my, my.
Speaker A:The one of the first question of these two is mine.
Speaker A:So we are seeing a change model of taking an ax to something rather than pruning.
Speaker A:What are the benefits of each and how do they impact us versus taking an ax to something rather than pruning it when, when it needs change?
Speaker B:Well, and it's probably even harder if you feel that the, the blunt end of the ax is, you know.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker B:Know, this, this idea about some things need to be reformed, some things in life need to be transformed.
Speaker B:And, and you can, you can look at history, you can look at scripture and see models of all kinds of ways that change occurs.
Speaker B:I think even if a blunt instrument is taken, an ax is taken to something, if the something has anything good about will need to be rebuilt.
Speaker B:Jesus says that, that this thing needs, things need to be pruned because when you prune them back, they do better.
Speaker B:And I don't know if the folks listening have ever pruned anything, but Ruth, my wife, is a gardener, and she tells me, you know, we need to go out and cut these branches out.
Speaker B:I say, really?
Speaker B:I mean, we, you know, this.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:I think we're going to kill this sucker.
Speaker B:That's, that's what I think is going on.
Speaker B:And she says, no, you know, you just have to do it appropriately.
Speaker B:And when you do that, then the energy goes in the right places in the right way.
Speaker B:The vital life of the plant and it, and it does better.
Speaker B:And so I think there are times when you said, you say, really?
Speaker B:That thing, that piece, that institution, that effort, it's had its season.
Speaker B:And sometimes people want to keep that season because something good happened in their life because of that during that season.
Speaker B:But that season is over.
Speaker B:And so what we need.
Speaker B:I remember when I was a young pastor at the University of Illinois back in the 70s, and there were a lot of stuff going on in the 70s, man.
Speaker B:You got movements.
Speaker B:And I mean, there was upheaval in the culture and all of that stuff, right?
Speaker B:And so I got big on small groups.
Speaker B:Let's do small groups.
Speaker B:And I'd never done small groups really, but I said, we're going to divide the city into quadrants and we're going to.
Speaker B:And you can go to the one that's close to your house.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:And what you find out is that sometimes people's best friends aren't as close to their house as you'd like them to be.
Speaker B:They're down.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And so after really laboring it, you know, and we put scripture with it, tried to make it biblical or what small groups are a biblical idea, but not the way I'm going at it.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And we just stood up one Sunday morning.
Speaker B:We just let.
Speaker B:And we just said, you know, we tried this with all these places and a couple of them have worked, but we just like to declare this structure dead stopping that.
Speaker B:And if you want to be in a small group, you know, good on you.
Speaker B:And we'll help any way we can, but we're not going to try to orchestrate that for you.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it was a freeing moment.
Speaker B:So something need to have an ax taken to the root and just.
Speaker B:But most things, I think, take some thought and prayer and some surgery, you know, and there are some things that need to be fixed that really need delicate surgery because there's real life there.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And you don't want to cut the root on that.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's a good word.
Speaker A:I love how you highlighted the intentionality of it.
Speaker A:I think any of us could get out and swing with an ax and try to chop something down, but at the same time to prune, as you said, Ruth, that you have to know what you're doing right.
Speaker A:You have to know where to cut, you know, the intentionality of it, and also have the faith that it's going to grow back and grow back, grow back, grow back bigger and stronger and healthier.
Speaker B:And you.
Speaker B:And you have to.
Speaker B:In gardening, at least you need to know the character and kind of plant you're working.
Speaker B:What works for one plant may not work the same way with the other.
Speaker B:Because my tendency, and I confess this over the years, I said, well, it worked over there in Illinois.
Speaker B:I'm sure it'll work in California.
Speaker B:Why wouldn't it?
Speaker B:And if it works in California, clearly it'll work in Zimbabwe, you know.
Speaker A:Very, very true.
Speaker A:And timing, you know, that's one thing I learned my mom was a gardener, was also when it comes to pruning is the timing of it.
Speaker A:And she always would time when she would prune trees.
Speaker A:And so there's.
Speaker A:Man, you could probably preach a whole sermon on that one.
Speaker A:So last question.
Speaker A:Lister said in wanted to Know what books you're reading and what you're learning from them.
Speaker B:I have one that I'm rereading and years ago there in the, in the, in the first half or the middle part of the last century, which is the part I was born in, right that middle part there, there were a whole lot of things that happened.
Speaker B:You, you, you, you had these two world wars that were devastating.
Speaker B:20 years apart essentially, maybe not even that 15 years.
Speaker B:And in that time of upheaval for whatever reasons, there were writers and others that really, I don't know if it was the pressure that helped them think in different ways, but among a group of missionary folks like Frank Lavok I think was in the Philippines and he came up with the thought or taught the thought of each one.
Speaker B:Teach one.
Speaker B:I know you can have crusades, but most of us aren't so forth.
Speaker B:And along with that in those same years and into the, into the 40s, 50s and 60s, was a fellow named East Stanley Jones.
Speaker B:E.
Speaker B:Stanley Jones was a, was a well renowned British to British evangelist.
Speaker B:And in his, in his 88th year he was invited to go teach in Japan.
Speaker B:And during that time he, he spoke on average six times a day for I don't know how long.
Speaker B:It was the long time.
Speaker B:Two, two months maybe.
Speaker B:And he ended up having a stroke and dying.
Speaker B:But the, but the last book he wrote, his, his.
Speaker B:One of his sides would not work.
Speaker B:He couldn't write.
Speaker B:So he could read it and his speech was impaired.
Speaker B: aughter, the tape recorder in: Speaker B:You know, in, in him all the promises of God are yes.
Speaker B:And in a world of no's, no, you can't do that or you shouldn't do that or why did you do that or whatever.
Speaker B:To have a yes is a real plus.
Speaker B:So I've been having a good time rereading the Divine Yes, a new book that I've been working, I've been working on this book for a year and I may have mentioned before, but, but it's a, it's a, it's a year because it's, it's a thick tome.
Speaker B:But it's the, it's supposed to be the best biography.
Speaker B:You know, that's what Google says.
Speaker B:Best biography of G.K.
Speaker B:chesterton.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:By a fellow named Ian Care and I reading people.
Speaker B:Whether it's East Stanley Jones or reading Chesterton people who by their gifting are able to distill and challenge you with how they think is really stimulating to me.
Speaker B:G.K.
Speaker B:chesterton was, I think Anglican and then later in his life he became Catholic and so forth.
Speaker B:But when he writes things, you know, I don't read Catholic or Anglican or, you know, I don't get the rapping so much, but I thought you might like a couple of quotes from GK Chesterton.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Did I do that in the.
Speaker B:For example, the nature of God.
Speaker B:The riddles of God are more satisfying than the solutions of man or mystery.
Speaker B:As long as you have mystery, you have health.
Speaker B:When you destroy mystery, you create morbidity.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:One of my favorite ones is.
Speaker B:Is about the sun.
Speaker B:God is like the sun.
Speaker B:You cannot.
Speaker B:You cannot look at it, but without it you cannot see anything else.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:You see why I like it?
Speaker A:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker B:For sure.
Speaker B:I like this on individuality because that's where we're going with the world.
Speaker B:I think a dead thing can go with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it.
Speaker B:My.
Speaker B:My favorite quote.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:I think I may have shared this with you before, but is about being childlike.
Speaker B:Can.
Speaker B:Can I take a moment?
Speaker B:Just read it real quick.
Speaker A:For sure.
Speaker B:Because children have abounding vitality because they are in spirit fierce and free.
Speaker B:Therefore they want things repeated and unchanged.
Speaker B:They always say, do it again, and the grown up person does it again until he's nearly dead or grown up people are not strong enough to exalt in monotony.
Speaker B:But perhaps God is strong enough to exalt in monotony.
Speaker B:It's possible that God says every morning do it again to the sun, and every evening do it again to the moon.
Speaker B:It may not be automatic necessity that makes all daisies alike.
Speaker B:It may be that God makes every daisy separately, but has never got tired of making them.
Speaker B:It may be that he has the eternal appetite of infancy, where we have sinned and grown old and our father is younger than we.
Speaker A:Amazing stuff.
Speaker B:I encourage you to read Chester then.
Speaker A:Maybe if I could just get one quote of that, like come up with one good quote like that in my lifetime, I think I'd be good.
Speaker A:So anyway, good stuff, good stuff.
Speaker B:I will see to it if you do that.
Speaker B:I'll see to it that we insist with your family that they put it on your tombstone.
Speaker A:Maybe that.
Speaker A:Probably not going to happen.
Speaker A:So anyway, Dick, always, always good to spend time with on back channel with fo.
Speaker A:We're going to go ahead and jump into our interview with Kara Tyler on child safety.
Speaker A:Well, there's no time better than to get started.
Speaker A:So here we go.
Speaker A:Greetings and welcome back to the Clarity podcast.
Speaker A:So excited to be here today with a friend of a longtime friend, Kara Tyler.
Speaker A:Kara, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker C:It's great to be here.
Speaker A:Kara, I've known you and Mike for many, many years.
Speaker A:For those on that are listening in that do not know you, can you share a little bit about yourself and then I'm going to start asking you a bunch of questions.
Speaker C:Great.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So my husband Mike and I have been serving overseas for 18 years and we have two amazing sons who are now in university and so we are in the empty nest phase of life.
Speaker A:Yes, we are fellow empty nesters and so interesting, interesting, interesting life for sure.
Speaker A:For sure.
Speaker A:Kara, you shared about your Mike's ministry in Germany, but recently stepped into a new role of leading child safety for the mission organizations we serve in.
Speaker A:What is a leader of child safety?
Speaker A:What does that look like?
Speaker A:And yeah, can you just share a little bit about it?
Speaker C:Sure, yeah.
Speaker C:It's really exciting to be stepping into this role for AJWM and building the framework for child safety within the org.
Speaker C:I think really a big piece of this role is working on those proactive preventative strategies in agwm and I really take a collaborative approach.
Speaker C:I think it's really important to have great discussions with leaders and those ministering to kids across the world regarding how we can safeguard kids.
Speaker C:And then I also am a part of the overseas response process.
Speaker C:Should a concern about child safety be raised on the field?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:So if somebody's listening in and maybe this term child safety is new to them.
Speaker A:When we say child safety, what are we thinking about and what are some of the reasons that's so important in a missions context?
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker C:So child safety is really a worldwide issue.
Speaker C:Children are considered a vulnerable population and it's really important that we give special thought to how we protect them mentally, emotionally, physically.
Speaker C:And so that's really what we're looking at when we discuss child safety.
Speaker C:We want to keep them safe from harm.
Speaker C:That would be abnormal.
Speaker C:There's bumps and scrapes that kids get that are normal as part of just growing and learning how to be a kid and adult in this world.
Speaker C:But we're looking at those things that would be not normal, that would come in from someone else, not protecting a child as they should be.
Speaker A:And also.
Speaker A:Go ahead.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker C:Oh, I was just going to say, you know, I think some ways how it is unique to the sending organization and what we do is really cross cultural service is not really a normal job.
Speaker C:The whole family participates and that's the uniqueness and the joy of what we get to do.
Speaker C:But this also means that we bring kids into new cultures where we as parents are just figuring it out.
Speaker C:And so I think it's really important that we as sending organizations are talking about it.
Speaker A:Good.
Speaker A:And I really appreciate your pioneering this.
Speaker A:That's when I introduce Kara.
Speaker A:I introduce her as a pioneer because she's pioneering this for the organization we serve in.
Speaker A:And pioneering is not easy when you're cutting a new path and making a new way.
Speaker A:There's joys and there's also challenges that can come with that.
Speaker A:Kara, if somebody's listening in, they're thinking maybe they don't really.
Speaker A:They might have some misconceptions when it comes to child safety and maybe there's some common ones that you've bumped up against as you've been pioneering this for our organization.
Speaker A:What are some misconceptions about child safety?
Speaker A:Maybe some of them that you've bumped up is as you've been pioneering.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker C:I think, you know, one of the big things is we always think that those that would harm kids would be strangers.
Speaker C:And you know, I think back stranger danger is what maybe the, the term that we heard growing up.
Speaker C:But the reality is that 95% of harm abuse takes place from someone who is known to the child.
Speaker C:And I think that's just so for parents to understand and ministry leaders to understand that strangers actually account for a very small percentage.
Speaker C:Another sort of misconception is that children will speak up if they're harmed.
Speaker C:And there's all sorts of reasons why children won't speak up.
Speaker C:But, but I think it's just important that if they do speak up later about something that happened earlier, it's, that's very typical.
Speaker C:And so to, to believe a child whenever they speak up about a harm that they may have experienced.
Speaker A:So you say it is, it is common then that sometimes they'll share about it later rather than when it just happened.
Speaker A:Would that be correct?
Speaker C:That's correct.
Speaker C:And actually in, in the realm of sexual abuse, it may be into their early adulthood before they speak out.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And so I think the, the other thing is, Cara, I really appreciate you saying that in sharing that, you know, we need to take it seriously that when, when kids share or when they share about something that's happened, I think sometimes we, we can play downplay that or because it can be an awkward conversation for the parent or whoever they share that with.
Speaker A:And so maybe it's easier think about it.
Speaker A:But I think the vast majority, as you shared the statistics say that when kids have the courage to share, there's something there, you know what I mean?
Speaker A:And not for us as the adults to downplay that.
Speaker A:Carrie, you talk about some like three things that we can do.
Speaker A:Power, distance, those things.
Speaker A:Could you share about those?
Speaker A:Because that'll help me lead into the next question I have for you.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker C:So in, in child safeguarding we use three principles.
Speaker C:And these are principles that I would say have been adopted with most organizations overseas because they're just, they're great guidelines.
Speaker C:And one is visibility.
Speaker C:Am I visible to other people as I interact with kids?
Speaker C:That's really important and I think it's where we should start.
Speaker C:Second is accountability.
Speaker C:Are we accountable for how spending time with kids and does someone know what we're doing when we're interacting with kids?
Speaker C:And the third is power distance.
Speaker C:And I think this one people don't get it at first, but as we have conversation, it's it, it comes alive.
Speaker C:And that's really the understanding that just by being an adult I have authority over a child.
Speaker C:And most of our kids have been just encouraged to listen to what adults say.
Speaker C:And so just by being an adult you have power over the kid to influence them and to encourage them to do different things.
Speaker C:And so to understand because you have that power to use it in a way that promotes safety and kindness to the kids we interact with.
Speaker A:And you know, I've heard you share about the power distance and I think that's the one that sticks out.
Speaker A:And I think as an adult sometimes you don't think about it, you know, you don't really consider it, but it is, it's so true.
Speaker A:It's so true.
Speaker A:And for us to consider all three of those things and I love how when you share about that, just how practical they are and it's not.
Speaker A:We can all think about those things, right.
Speaker A:When we're accountability, visibility, accountability and power distance.
Speaker A:I think that's something.
Speaker A:And we can those three easy things that we can consider in any situation, which I really, really appreciate.
Speaker A:Kara, you and I are both fans of CSPN and how does CSPN help organizations like the one we serve in?
Speaker A:How does it help us when it comes to child safeguarding?
Speaker C:Yeah, we are fans of CSPN and that's Child Safety and Protection Network and it's a fabulous network of global minist who collaborate around the topic of safeguarding.
Speaker C:And I was actually Just a couple weeks ago at their annual conference where you can participate in how to respond as an agency, also how to build a program.
Speaker C:And then they really keep a pulse on the trends in the field and help us keep up with just relevant dialogues around the topic of child safety.
Speaker A:Were there some things that stuck out to you about trends when you were at the conference?
Speaker C:Yeah, actually it was all on digital interaction.
Speaker C:And I think that that is just a huge topic right now.
Speaker C:It's amazing just what we as parents and as an organization need to be aware of because of the Internet and, and what who comes into our house that maybe we would never invite through the door, but we invite through the screen.
Speaker C:And so it's just great to keep our eyes on those trends as we dialogue and just have conversations with families.
Speaker A:Yeah, you know, I remember when we went to Burkina Faso, we connected at like 6 kilobytes per second.
Speaker A:So, you know, there was not much browsing Internet, you know, I mean, it was actually a very frustrating experience.
Speaker A:That's 20 some odd years ago.
Speaker A:But man, we've come a long ways, baby, when it comes to access to the Internet.
Speaker A:You know, I mean, even in Africa and around the world, there Internet was used to be slow and difficult, but we've come a long way.
Speaker A:But at the same time, as you say, Kara, with that access to the Internet, it also invites, as you shared people into our house that maybe we wouldn't just let through the front door, but at the same time they can come in digitally.
Speaker A:And man, that's a challenge for us all as parents and as we parent our kids.
Speaker A:So, Kara, what are some proactive actions that parents could take today to help their kids and help in this area of safeguarding?
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker C:When I think about parenting, I think about the power of the conversation.
Speaker C:And I really think that raising kids is simply one long conversation as we help shape them into who God wants, wants them to be.
Speaker C:And child safety is just one of those conversations we need to be having with our children.
Speaker C:I often think parents feel ill equipped to have these conversations, specifically about sexual abuse, pornography and online predators.
Speaker C:But those are some of the conversations that we need to be having.
Speaker C:And I think everyone's like, concerned, you know, how soon is too soon and everything.
Speaker C:But I would say that there are ways that we can have those conversations that, that are age appropriate, that equip and empower our kids and don't leave our kids vulnerable.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:In a few weeks, I'll have Jim Burns on the podcast and he'll.
Speaker A:He kind of dives in on how to have these conversations around sex with our kids and they can be awkward.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And I think, you know, in sometimes I think we're, as parents, we're afraid we're going to traumatize them by having these conversations.
Speaker A:But at the same time as you, the previous question.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:We talk, we live in a digital world, and there's other people like to influence our kids.
Speaker A:If not.
Speaker A:If we're not having those conversations.
Speaker A:Kara, are there other things, as you think about proactive things for parents when it comes to maybe in a.
Speaker A:Maybe we differ.
Speaker A:You talked about that.
Speaker A:Global workers, it's a different lifestyle.
Speaker A:Is there some other proactive things that the parents can be thinking about or even maybe team members, maybe that it's, you know, we kind of live in families.
Speaker A:We use the word aunts and uncles.
Speaker A:In the world we live in, are there other actions, maybe encouragements for maybe aunts and uncles, team members, when it comes to being proactive, when it comes to safeguarding the kids that are on their team and those that are around them?
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I think when we talk about working in team, it's again, conversation is key.
Speaker C:And one, you know, first, we want to help new families understand the culture that they're stepping into, because some cultures have different, just unique challenges maybe, or unique cultural practices that may catch a parent off guard if they're not aware.
Speaker C:So I would just encourage team leaders to be open and upfront about different conversations.
Speaker C:The other is have conversations as a team about what you're comfortable with.
Speaker C:For family boundaries.
Speaker C:No two families are the same.
Speaker C:Some allow sleepover, some do not.
Speaker C:And, you know, that's a.
Speaker C:That's a family's choice.
Speaker C:I think we need to have.
Speaker C:Be upfront and have good, proactive conversations about, you know, hey, if I see your kid at school without a ride, do you want me to bring them home?
Speaker C:Do you want me to text you first and get permission?
Speaker C:Like, those things can help one kid stay safe, but also have families build trust because they know where the other is coming from.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's a good word.
Speaker A:And those conversations that.
Speaker A:That help set expectations.
Speaker A:And Kara, I really appreciate you sharing that.
Speaker A:Not every family is the same.
Speaker A:And, you know, I think sometimes it can be.
Speaker A:We can consider what we do is normal and then what everybody else would do is abnormal.
Speaker A:But I loved how you said just having that mutual respect for each family and not just accepting, but also supporting them in the decisions they make for their children and for their families.
Speaker A:Is that what you're sharing?
Speaker C:Yeah, I just wanted to add, you know, I think sometimes in our circles, we like to be very nice that we don't speak up when a family boundary has been crossed.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker C:And I would say it's okay in a kind way to advocate for your family and sort of the boundaries that you have set for your family?
Speaker C:And so, yes, I think we want to be empowered to have good conversations and proactive conversations instead of reactive.
Speaker B:Yeah, Kara.
Speaker A:So a parent's listening in and they're thinking, man, I'd like to do that, but I just don't even know how to start that conversation.
Speaker A:Any advice you would give if there's a family boundary that's been crossed?
Speaker A:Any way that you could just maybe guide and give words of encouragement as they begin that conversation?
Speaker A:I quote often from Duck Dynasty said, you know, 30 minutes, 30 seconds of awkwardness is worth a lifetime of regret.
Speaker A:And I think that does happen on, sometimes on a team.
Speaker A:We hold in things and then it builds inside of us and the enemy can use that.
Speaker A:So is there any kind of starter way that somebody could have that conversation when they feel like a family boundary has been crossed, that they can have a conversation in a.
Speaker A:In a kind but also firm way?
Speaker A:Does that make sense?
Speaker C:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker C:You know, for example, a family may not want adults to give their, their kids gifts because that, that may not be okay.
Speaker C:And so if, if, if an adult gave a child a gift without the parents permission, you know, I'm not talking about birthday or Christmas or whatever, but just started sort of lavishing gifts on another, the parent could simply go to the person, hey, you know, I appreciate that you are being kind and generous to my child, that you see them as valuable, but this is a family line.
Speaker C:When you want to give a gift, I need to be involved in that, and I need to be in the room when that, that happens.
Speaker C:And so in the sense of you can thank them, be grateful, but also say, next time, this, this is sort of how I want you to handle it.
Speaker C:And maybe it's no gifts.
Speaker C:Thanks for your generosity.
Speaker C:I would like you to show my kids value and worth in other ways besides gifts.
Speaker A:And Carrie, you.
Speaker A:That's a great example.
Speaker A:And what would be some reasons that maybe a parent would be concerned about that?
Speaker A:Because that, that kind of leads into the conversation about grooming, because sometimes people can use gifts as a reason.
Speaker A:So could you share about that?
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker C:So I think it's really important to understand grooming and some of the techniques that someone that would be trying to build a relationship with a child to cause harm Would, the tactics they would use.
Speaker C:And sometimes it's hard to differentiate who's just being nice, who's actually trying to build a relationship to cause harm.
Speaker C:And I think it's important.
Speaker C:Important.
Speaker C:I think there's ways that we can be kind and nice without moving into that realm of, of grooming.
Speaker C:And I think the, the key thing is, is secrets.
Speaker C:When people are, are speaking to your kids and saying, hey, we're.
Speaker C:I'm doing this because one, maybe you're special, or two, because it's a secret and this is just between us.
Speaker C:And they're really trying to figure out if they can manipulate a child to keep a secret over the long run.
Speaker C:And so that is one red flag.
Speaker C:And so that's why I'm like, hey, let's give gifts out in the open.
Speaker C:Let's keep everything transparent.
Speaker C:It goes back to that.
Speaker C:Visibility, accountability, power, distance.
Speaker C:Those three principles can really help us interact safely with kids.
Speaker A:No, exactly.
Speaker A:And those three things, Kara, they have helped me in great ways.
Speaker A:This, the process, the majority of things that I do through that lens.
Speaker A:And it really does, it really does give us a, Give us wisdom and a way to walk forward when that, when it comes to that.
Speaker A:So how have you seen child safeguarding or child safety change over the years?
Speaker C:Yeah, well, I think we, we touched on it a little bit when we talked about this recent conference that I was at at.
Speaker C:And that is really the digital piece.
Speaker C:And online predators in, in some ways that are, are really able to come into our, our home and interact with our kids through chats in different games.
Speaker C:And I think it's just something that we want to be aware and equip our kids.
Speaker C:Hey, we don't talk to anyone online that we haven't met in person.
Speaker C:And that would be like, maybe, you know, the, the easiest standard.
Speaker C:And then you may have as a parent, some other concerns that you guide, you guide your kids in.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And Kara, maybe somebody's listening into this podcast and they say, hey, I've, I've been a global worker.
Speaker A:I've been a missionary for 25 years while it use myself.
Speaker A:I've been for 20, 23 years, going on 24.
Speaker A:I've never done anything to hurt kids.
Speaker A:You know, I'm a good, I'm a good guy.
Speaker A:Why do I, you know, why now are you all this focus on this and, and shouldn't my past just give a pass for me to not participate in, in, in changes and the growth that we're having?
Speaker A:How would you, if I said that to you?
Speaker A:How Would you respond to me?
Speaker C:Yeah, I think in one, it's not just about you.
Speaker A:Oh, there you go.
Speaker C:It's about learning for our community.
Speaker C:And so it's about being engaged in the conversation because you are now more aware and more equipped to talk about these concepts.
Speaker C:You have an understanding about how as a community we can be safe for kids.
Speaker C:That's, that's the big thing.
Speaker C:I mean, yes, a lot of our people on the field are just safe people.
Speaker C:And this is part, they do some of this naturally just because they want to love kids well and serve kids well.
Speaker C:And so it's about, it's about being a community right now.
Speaker A:No, I love that.
Speaker A:And you know, in the recent months as we've walked through some different things, normally people, when something happens, they think, how does this impact me?
Speaker A:I, I think it's natural.
Speaker A:You know, we normally think, how does this impact me?
Speaker A:And I love how you're pioneering and you're helping us when it comes to child safeguarding.
Speaker A:But in general, people think, well, hey, there's going to be some changes.
Speaker A:How does this impact me?
Speaker A:What am I?
Speaker A:You know, I mean, and so I think that's, we do come back to that.
Speaker A:But I appreciate you sharing that.
Speaker A:It's part about being, it's a community and there's many things in life you can push back against, but keeping kids safe, I mean, that's, that's kind of hard one to push back against, you know, I mean, you can lot like a bunch of things in life.
Speaker A:But anyway, if you're pushing back on keeping kids safe, I think we all, we all want kids to be safe.
Speaker A:And I appreciate you saying we're a community and we all play a part in that for many, many, many reasons.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:All right, so you mentioned a little bit earlier that, you know, some of the neat, unique challenges of kids that grow up on the field.
Speaker A:You've raised your two boys on the field, we've raised our kids on the field.
Speaker A:And so there are some unique challenges that come.
Speaker A:So how does those unique challenges then impact when it comes to child safety?
Speaker A:I'm kind of circling back to this because I think it's a really important thing.
Speaker A:Specifically for the audience that listens into this podcast.
Speaker C:Yeah, I think cross cultural living and stepping into a new culture.
Speaker C:I know for myself I was a bit overwhelmed, especially in that first term, and I was trying to learn culture and honestly there was times when I was trying to figure out, am I going to bring my us centric parenting or am I going to use you Start leaning into some German parenting.
Speaker C:And I think as we go into new cultures, we're trying to fit in, and so we're trying to figure out how.
Speaker C:How we can do that, and that impacts our parenting.
Speaker C:So, one, we're under incredible stress, so we're trying to manage our stuff.
Speaker C:And so sometimes we can be unaware.
Speaker C:I mean, predators look for kids that their parents are not paying attention.
Speaker C:And so I think that that is one of the big things to be paying attention.
Speaker C:Have those good conversations with your kids.
Speaker C:But even if you do, I mean, we can't protect our children 100%, but we can mitigate the risk to our children, and that's by having conversations, understanding the culture, talking to your team.
Speaker C:Hey, what do I need to be aware of in this culture as I protect my kids, as I shepherd them into this culture as well?
Speaker A:That's good.
Speaker A:And as you said, Cara, my.
Speaker A:I resonate with that.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:You know, when you get to a new place, your hard drive's already filled up, and you don't necessarily make the best decisions as a parent.
Speaker A:You know, I mean, and it's not because you're being mean or whatever.
Speaker A:You're.
Speaker A:You're.
Speaker A:You're just.
Speaker A:At least I was.
Speaker A:I was overwhelmed each time we made a.
Speaker A:A transition from.
Speaker A:From, you know, from France and then France to Burkina.
Speaker A:Burkina, then to Madagascar.
Speaker A:Madagascar, then to Kenya.
Speaker A:Each time you're trying to learn, you're trying to do your best as a parent.
Speaker A:You really are, but at the same time, you just feel like it's coming in all different directions.
Speaker A:And, and you.
Speaker A:You highlighted that, you know, the idea of culture and not wanting to offend the culture that you're there to share.
Speaker A:Share the love of Christ with.
Speaker A:You know, you're trying to share the love of Christ and you're trying to figure out is this.
Speaker A:Is this common or is this.
Speaker A:This just an odd situation?
Speaker A:And, man, it's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's a balance.
Speaker A:And, you know, I don't necessarily think it as much as in Europe, but in Africa, many places that are global workers serve.
Speaker A:You have people that are in your home, you know, somebody that.
Speaker A:That helps in the house or whether that's a cook.
Speaker A:That was abnormal.
Speaker A:To me, I.
Speaker A:I never had somebody in my home, you know, a.
Speaker A:Other than my family.
Speaker A:You know, those were the people that were there.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And you have guards, and you.
Speaker A:So your kids then end up having access to other people that are really.
Speaker A:They know you really well, you know, those people that are in your home.
Speaker A:And so it's a it's an it can be a challenging dynamic but anyway it's and I just do encourage parents just to give yourself grace at the same time.
Speaker A:Keep your, keep your be vigilant.
Speaker A:Be vigilant would be the word would be the word that I would use.
Speaker A:So are there resources that you recommend to parents, Kara, on how they can grow in this area and things that they can begin to do?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So anyone a part of our org that wants to be connected with cspn, it's open to them.
Speaker C:And the other thing is we are partnering with Protect Me Project which is a branch of our IM International ministries that actually is anti human trafficking ministry.
Speaker C:But some of the resources that they have created will help parents have great conversations.
Speaker C:They have a little storybook and they have some flyers that can just help equip parents to have have good and solid conversations with their kids.
Speaker A:That's great.
Speaker A:And love the love the partnerships leaders if there's any their leader listening into this podcast are the things that leaders can specifically do.
Speaker A:I I, you know I'm stepping out of a role as an area director and as an area director you end up making decisions for, for people's, you know and helping people make decisions not making for but when it comes to a lot of different things.
Speaker A:So what are, what are leaders?
Speaker A:What can leaders do to help mks help the teams that they serve and help with child safeguarding?
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker C:So I hope I'm not sounding too redundant but you know, I think leaders making room for having these important conversations in team meetings is important.
Speaker C:I know some of us have used April as Child Abuse Awareness month to raise this topic and spend some time to broach this this subject and hear from one another.
Speaker C:But I also think that leaders can lead by example by putting child safety protocols in place during team meetings and encouraging it.
Speaker C:We've talked about sort of internal right now, but a lot of us minister to kids in how we're serving on our fields and I think it's really important to think through how can we minister safely to, to the kids that we are here to serve and to share Jesus with.
Speaker C:And, and so I think having those conversations and setting up good policy, even just those three principles as, as I don't know, as simple as they are, are so powerful to protect kids.
Speaker C:But as you have more inter action, whether you serve in a school or a feeding program or just a kids ministry, what are our safety protocols?
Speaker C:And that's so important to touch on as well.
Speaker A:That's good.
Speaker A:And I think as you shared earlier, we're all our community, and leaders play a part in that, and team members play a part in that, and we can help if we move forward together.
Speaker A:And I know that if a leader champions something, something in general, it gives parents and kids freedom to.
Speaker A:To function in that.
Speaker A:And so leaders do have a lot of voice into helping people understand the importance of this.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And I think the language that we share and how we talk about this is something that we're excited about, and it's not something.
Speaker A:This is something we get to do and not something we have to do.
Speaker A:I guess that my kids in my house would always.
Speaker A:They didn't like me switching that, but it is true, right?
Speaker A:This is something we get to do as an organization.
Speaker A:This is what we get to do as leaders.
Speaker A:This is what we get to do as a team.
Speaker A:This is an opportunity we have.
Speaker A:It's not something we're begrudgingly doing because we have to do it.
Speaker A:And, yeah, I think the way we verbalize that as leaders, the way we see this as leaders, we can be great advocates for it because we all do want to see.
Speaker A:We want to establish the church among all peoples everywhere, and we want our kids to be as safe as possible, possible in the process.
Speaker A:So any.
Speaker A:Any questions I should have asked you, Kara?
Speaker C:I don't think so.
Speaker C:I think that we've covered a lot of ground today.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, Kara, I'd like for you to pray for us.
Speaker A:This will air the beginning of April.
Speaker A:Just the podcast, that's one thing we've tried to do is just highlight Child Child Abuse Awareness Month, Child Safety Month at the beginning of April.
Speaker A:So this will be the first episode in the month of April.
Speaker A:Will you pray for us?
Speaker A:And as we.
Speaker A:As we close out the podcast.
Speaker C:Father God, I thank you for just your goodness in our life.
Speaker C:Father, I thank you that you have allowed us to have these conversations to keep children safe.
Speaker C:Lord God, Father, we know that your heart is for kids, and we celebrate that.
Speaker C:Lord God, we want our hearts to be for kids.
Speaker C:Lord God, we want to create safe spaces for not only the kids that we bring with us to the field, but those we minister to.
Speaker C:Father, I just pray that you would use this, this podcast and in this month for teams to interact well over this conversation, for parents to have conversations with kids and for leaders to reflect on their ministry, that they would think about how they can make it more safe for the kids that they bless and interact with.
Speaker C:Father, we thank you that you are with us and that you are championing us to reach all people everywhere with your good news.
Speaker C:Lord, I just ask that you would continue to be with us as we are about your.
Speaker C:Your business.
Speaker C:Lord, we love you and just glorify you in all we do.
Speaker C:Amen.
Speaker A:Amen.
