Ed Nye on A Theology of Risk
Ed Nye joins us today to share about Theology of Risk and how having an understanding of risk can help us navigate life and ministry
Takeaways:
- The podcast emphasizes the importance of understanding a theology of risk in global missions.
- Ed Nye highlights the need for balancing faith with practical risk management in ministry work.
- Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their personal risk tolerance to navigate challenges effectively.
- The conversation underscores the significance of love, worship, obedience, and faith as guiding values in managing risk.
Transcript
Hey there and welcome back to the Clarity podcast.
Speaker A:This podcast is all about providing clarity insight and encouragement for life and mission.
Speaker A:My name is Aaron Sandemier and I.
Speaker B:Get to be your host today.
Speaker A:We have the phenomenal opportunity to have with us on the podcast Ed and I, the security guy, Ed and I have been friends for many years.
Speaker A:Ed went out, him and I went out as missionaries way back 20 plus years ago with our wives and our families and and in the last few years, Ed stepped into the role as a security leader for the organization.
Speaker A:I serve at AGWM and he's been a pioneer.
Speaker A:Ed has pioneered some great changes.
Speaker A:He's helped us grow, he's helped help increase our training and streamline our training.
Speaker A:We're gonna talk today about a theology of risk.
Speaker A:He delved into that and jumped into that and pulled some things together and he did a phenomenal job.
Speaker A:He worked with team, formed a team and they brought it together and just a blessing for our organization.
Speaker A:And he continues to adapt and change and look and it's a great encouragement to have him on the podcast today to get to learn from him and just to discuss this idea of a theology of risk.
Speaker A:Where does that come from biblically?
Speaker A:How does it inform us as we make decisions and specifically those who are seeking to establish the church among all peoples everywhere and planting the church, what does that look like?
Speaker A:Not to live in fear, but not to be negligent and walk those balances.
Speaker A:And Ed gives us a great resource that can help us in that and then he'll talk about a tolerance tool that you can possibly use and it allows you to gauge where your tolerance is when it comes to risk.
Speaker A:And just very, very cool.
Speaker A:And like I said, he's a pioneer and continues to grow and develop resources.
Speaker A:Do and ask you to continue to subscribe to the podcast.
Speaker A:I know the podcasts I subscribe to are the ones I listen to.
Speaker A:They show up on my phone on and I know what I'm going to be listening to throughout the rest of the week.
Speaker A:Do ask you also to continue to send in your questions from back channel with Foeth.
Speaker A:That's where I get to sit down with Dick.
Speaker A:Get to learn from him his wisdom, his insight, his experience.
Speaker A:It's always great to have Dick on the podcast.
Speaker A:And just a reminder, my book A Caring Family is out.
Speaker A:It's the book I wish I would have read 20 years ago.
Speaker A:The subtitle is To Care Better and Love Longer.
Speaker A:And it gives us an opportunity just to see how as parents, grandparents, aunts and Uncles how we can be focused and intentional and giving our kids the opportunity to care for others and model that in life and home and in ministry.
Speaker A:Well, there's no time better than now to get started.
Speaker A:So here we go.
Speaker B:Greetings and welcome back to the Clarity Podcast.
Speaker B:So excited to be here today with a new friend of the podcast, Ed Nye.
Speaker B:Ed, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker C:Hey, thanks for having me, Aaron.
Speaker B:Ed, looking forward to our conversation today.
Speaker B:Would you go ahead and you and I went through candidate orientation long way back, but if somebody hasn't known you that long, would you just share a little bit about yourself and then I'm going to start asking you some questions.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:My wife and I were actually called to the field long before, I mean, even a year before we got married.
Speaker C:We were called on the same day, separately from one another, ended up getting married.
Speaker C:And it was 17 years between the time that we knew we were called and it was to a restricted access country.
Speaker C:And 17 years between the time that we were called and we landed on the field.
Speaker C:So we had background and we pastored in the meantime.
Speaker C:I was an entrepreneur.
Speaker C:I worked in corporate America.
Speaker C:I did a lot of things to support my preaching habit.
Speaker C:And we finally hit the field.
Speaker C:And so that was the beginning of it.
Speaker C:And so we had three kids when we were on the field, and they slowly left us, as kids will do.
Speaker C:And so now we've got three grown kids.
Speaker C:The oldest married, the second one engaged, and the third one with a serious relationship.
Speaker C:So we're happy.
Speaker C:And now we're in a new role.
Speaker C:We're off the field and serving globally as the zombies of God.
Speaker C:World Missions Global Security Coordinator.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:Ed, we're going to talk a little bit today and get to learn from you.
Speaker B:So you've been going through a project, working on developing a theology of risk.
Speaker B:What did that look like and why was that?
Speaker B:That was something very important to you.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I was asked to serve in this role and had no idea what the role was.
Speaker C:You know, as so often happens in our line of work.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:They're like, hey, can you do this?
Speaker C:And you're like, what is this?
Speaker C:And they're like, I don't know, figure it out.
Speaker C:So they were, you know, security.
Speaker C:One of the things we have, you know, problem with in.
Speaker C:In this area is just the problem with understanding what are the definitions.
Speaker C:What are we really even talking about when we say talk about security?
Speaker C:Are we talking about keeping people safe?
Speaker C:Because if we do, if we're talking about keeping people safe, that's kind of impossible for 2,700 workers around the world.
Speaker C:And I don't think think that Jesus really promises that he's going to keep us safe, especially doing what we're doing.
Speaker C:And so if it's not keeping people safe, what is it?
Speaker C:And it's more about managing risk.
Speaker C:Like, I like using the example of Nehemiah.
Speaker C:You know, Nehemiah had threats that came against him and he didn't give up.
Speaker C:He didn't turn away from the threats, but he also didn't ignore them.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So he did two things.
Speaker C:He did something in the spiritual, he prayed, and then he also posted a guard.
Speaker C:So he mitigated the risk.
Speaker C:And he also asked God for help.
Speaker C:You know, so there was faith on both sides, the practical and the spiritual.
Speaker C:Both things were done in faith and not in fear.
Speaker C:So I knew that we needed a theology of risk because that, to me, as I examined what it means to be a global worker, you know, and really wanting to, you know, the organizational, organizational, mission statement is planting the church among all people everywhere.
Speaker C:And if we're going to do that, that's going to entail a lot of risk.
Speaker C:And so when you're facing a risk decision, like, do I step into this risk?
Speaker C:Do I avoid it?
Speaker C:How do I manage it?
Speaker C:How do I make this decision in a biblical and practical way?
Speaker C:There was very little out there and almost nothing.
Speaker C:There was one book at the time that I could turn to that was helpful, but it was very, very dense.
Speaker C:Still an excellent book, excellent read, Great resource called Facing Danger by Anna Hampton, but nothing that was really accessible for workers.
Speaker C:So I turned to.
Speaker C:I did a lot of research.
Speaker C:I spent about a year working on it, and then another year working with other theologian practitioners, people like Mark Hossfeld and Daryl Jump, and just a bunch of really knowledgeable, good, solid theological people.
Speaker C:They helped me work through some of those issues.
Speaker C:And then we finally posted it as a position paper.
Speaker D:Okay.
Speaker C:On the AGWM website.
Speaker C:So, yeah, so that's the foundation.
Speaker C:That's the beginning.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And where did you say people could find it at?
Speaker C:So if you go to team.agwm.org okay.
Speaker C:And click on missiological papers.
Speaker D:Okay.
Speaker C:And then it's the first one in the list of missiological papers.
Speaker D:No, it's good.
Speaker C:And it's publicly available.
Speaker C:It's also available on.
Speaker C:We have our HEWM member care app.
Speaker C:It's available on that as well.
Speaker B:Awesome, awesome.
Speaker B:So you.
Speaker B:You mentioned a little bit about Nehemiah.
Speaker B:When, as the Bible speaks to risk, are There any other things that come to mind when you think how the Bible speaks to risk?
Speaker C:Yeah, so, I mean, that's the first place we want to turn to, right, when.
Speaker C:When we talk about.
Speaker C:When we talk about risk, because, you know, it's like, okay, what does the Bible say?
Speaker C:Yeah, well, it can get confusing because the Bible talks a lot about risk, but different people make different risk decisions, and they seem to be commended for it.
Speaker C:Like, Nehemiah did one thing, right?
Speaker C:But Paul did something else sometimes.
Speaker C:And then Paul did multiple things, like he was threats faced him, and sometimes he ran away, sometimes he stayed and faced the threat.
Speaker C:Jesus, you know, when he.
Speaker C:They picked up the stones to stone him, he walked out through the crowd and avoided that risk.
Speaker C:But then they took him till Golgotha and they crucified him, you know, and he did that willingly.
Speaker C:He stepped into that risk.
Speaker C:And so when you're looking at scripture, it's still almost navigating a minefield because there's so many different stories about risk.
Speaker C:And so that was why that theology of risk was so important.
Speaker C:A couple other things before we get into Scripture, just in.
Speaker C:In trying to figure out how do we even ask the right questions of Scripture is to get back to this definition thing.
Speaker C:In America and the west, we say risk, and what we actually mean is threat.
Speaker C:Like, we mean risk to us has become synonymous with danger.
Speaker C:Okay, but that's not the definition of risk.
Speaker C:That's not the historical or even current definition of risk.
Speaker C:And there's many, many definitions of risk, but it's not threat or danger so much as it is about uncertainty.
Speaker C:Like, I'm at a crossroads.
Speaker C:I can go left or right or straight.
Speaker C:All of them have got benefits or upsides and downsides.
Speaker C:Like, for us as global worker, the upside is usually kingdom focused.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:So do I take that risk or do.
Speaker C:Do I avoid it?
Speaker C:Do I mitigate it?
Speaker C:Like, what do I do in this moment of decision?
Speaker C:So it's uncertainty.
Speaker C:It's not threat, necessarily.
Speaker C:And so.
Speaker C:So that's how you.
Speaker C:You kind of had to approach scripture and talk about it.
Speaker B:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker B:And as you said, you know, there's.
Speaker B:You come to those places, right?
Speaker B:We're kingdom minded.
Speaker B:At the same time, those realities, and I think those are things that we have to navigate each day.
Speaker B:And I'm excited a little further in the podcast to hear about the tool you've developed to help people understand their.
Speaker B:Their kind of where they fit or where their tolerances on that.
Speaker B:So, so you, we.
Speaker B:You clarified there, Ed, about risk and Then.
Speaker B:And when you look in the Bible for more or for evidence of how to navigate this, you said sometimes in scripture it makes you think one way, sometimes you see other.
Speaker B:You see different models.
Speaker B:But we serve as global workers.
Speaker B:Risks kind of inherent in what we do.
Speaker B:And so what are some of those inherent risks in what we do?
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, we don't really think about.
Speaker C:Some workers will say, oh, I live in a safe country.
Speaker C:I don't ever take any risks.
Speaker C:I don't think any of us would actually say that.
Speaker C:But there might be that perception, like, I live in a country that has no risks, or I live in a high risk country or whatever.
Speaker C:There are risks that we take as global workers that are inherent just to what we're doing.
Speaker C:The baseline risk that all of us have is the fact that we are strangers in a strange land.
Speaker C:We are outsiders in a culture.
Speaker C:We're stepping, no matter where we go, we're stepping into a culture that does not come naturally to us.
Speaker C:That's, that's almost always the case.
Speaker C:Not, not 100% of the time, but almost always the case.
Speaker C:And when you don't know how things work, that's risky.
Speaker C:Like, you know, if your apartment catches on fire and you don't even know what the number to the fire department is or if there is a fire department.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:So just by being an outsider in a culture, being a stranger in a strange land, that's risk.
Speaker C:But also, you know, we have an enemy and Satan does not like what we're doing.
Speaker C:So one of the other risks is the fact that we are much more liable to be facing spiritual attacks, attacks against our children, attacks against our health.
Speaker C:There's risks that we take because speaking of health, a lot of places we go don't have a good health infrastructure.
Speaker C:No good hospitals, few good doctors.
Speaker C:Some of the risks we take have to do with education of our children.
Speaker C:Like, am I going to have to homeschool?
Speaker C:The answer is sometimes, yes.
Speaker C:But those are all challenges that we face.
Speaker C:Other times.
Speaker C:There is crime, high crime areas, sometimes terrorist activity.
Speaker C:Sometimes the government itself wants to take action against us as a global worker.
Speaker C:We don't, you know, we, we tend to be that frog in the kettle.
Speaker C:But if you step back and think about it, there's all kinds of risks that we take just by virtue of what we do, that the normal person living in their home culture, whatever culture or country that happens to be, it's a place that's familiar to them.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:And they don't and won't take the risks that you as a global worker will take.
Speaker B:Yeah, you know, it's a small one, but just kind of an example.
Speaker B:So I had some friend, a friend and visit.
Speaker B:We lived in Madagascar.
Speaker B:And so, you know, we went into town, we went into did ministry, came back to my house, and we got there, and he said, you're going to take all your clothes and your shoes and everything off, aren't you, before you go into your house?
Speaker B:And I said, why?
Speaker B:He said, well, where we've walked, where we've been, we got to.
Speaker B:Got to get all this, you know.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:But it was just something.
Speaker B:A frog in the kettle type thing.
Speaker B:It wasn't.
Speaker B:I didn't think about it, you know, I mean, it wasn't.
Speaker B:But it was in his eyes.
Speaker B:It was this.
Speaker B:All this new germs and it was.
Speaker B:I mean, there's open sewers, all that, you know, I mean, and he's like, we just got to get like a.
Speaker B:We got to sterilize everything and we got to get rid of all this.
Speaker B:But it was.
Speaker B:Was a risk or the reality of where we lived and what we did.
Speaker B:And you just got used to it and said, this is kind of the way things are.
Speaker B:But as you were talking about the many, the many areas of risk that we can really navigate, you know, that's, that's one of them also.
Speaker B:Just the, The.
Speaker B:The climate or the, you know, just the, the cleanliness of the places we live.
Speaker B:So anyway, does that make sense, Ed?
Speaker C:Yeah, absolutely, 100%.
Speaker B:So, Ed, you.
Speaker B:In the theology of risk, you.
Speaker B:You share and the paper shares about some values or biblical principles that help us respond to risk.
Speaker B:Could you share some of those biblical principles?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So when you.
Speaker C:What would.
Speaker C:The way we approach the theology of risk was to look at scripture and to look at some of those risk stories.
Speaker C:And as I said, there's tons of them.
Speaker C:There's.
Speaker C:There's Esther and Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego and Nehemiah.
Speaker C:I mentioned.
Speaker C:There's Jesus and life of Paul.
Speaker C:There's just risk narratives all throughout Scripture.
Speaker C:So we looked at all those scriptures and.
Speaker C:Or as many as we could, and we just said, okay, what doesn't change about these?
Speaker C:Like, what biblical principles that are, you know, pretty much set in stone.
Speaker C:Should we.
Speaker C:Should we draw from that?
Speaker C:And, and one of them, one of the big ones.
Speaker C:Well, first, the principle going in, not necessarily a biblical principle, but a principle going in is to understand, and I touched on it earlier, that all risk is situational.
Speaker C:Like, whatever risk you're in at the moment it doesn't matter if you faced it before.
Speaker C:The answer to what to do about that risk could be different today than it was yesterday.
Speaker C:So all risk is situational.
Speaker C:So everybody has to make their own decisions.
Speaker C:So as we go in, we want to say what principles do we apply to use to evaluate that risk?
Speaker C:And one of them is that risk is stewardship.
Speaker C:And this is unashamedly, I give her credit in the paper, but I stole it from Anna Hampton.
Speaker C:And she talks about risk being on a spectrum, or rather stewardship in risk and being on a spectrum.
Speaker C:We all are stewarding something and usually many things.
Speaker C:Everything from our lives, our families, our ministry, you know, our possessions.
Speaker C:We're all, you know, our team, we're all stewarding all of these things.
Speaker C:And so how do we, how do we steward them best?
Speaker C:And sometimes God asks us to pour everything out, like to, on the one end of the spectrum, like the woman with the alabaster box of perfume and just poured it out on the feet of Jesus.
Speaker C:And she was, you know, she was given credit for that because it was the right decision.
Speaker C:And then you look at the other end of the spectrum.
Speaker C:And sometimes in risk, God asks us to steward the risk by making calculated decisions, like the parable of the 10 talents.
Speaker C:These stewards made calculated risks like they invested money, they did it wisely.
Speaker C:The only one who was discredited, the only one who was condemned really was the steward who took no risk.
Speaker C:So we see that God doesn't value taking no risk.
Speaker C:But taking risks is on a spectrum from calculated risk to pouring it all out.
Speaker C:So that's one, that's one principle.
Speaker C:Another thing is that a lot of times we don't understand that.
Speaker C:We look at our work on the field and we think we're all alone in making these decisions.
Speaker C:But God gave us leadership for a reason.
Speaker C:And sometimes the most gracious thing that a leader can do is make that risk decision for the person on the field.
Speaker C:Should I stay or should I go?
Speaker C:It's a very, very traumatic decision to make.
Speaker C:It's one that's not uncommon.
Speaker C:Most global workers will have to make that decision, whether it's health related or war related or whatever crisis it is.
Speaker C:Should I stay or should I go?
Speaker C:Is very difficult to make.
Speaker C:And so leadership, listen to your leadership and their guidance.
Speaker C:Sometimes they'll encourage you to take more risks, and sometimes they'll encourage you to withdraw from a risk.
Speaker C:So another biblical principle is that leadership guides our decision.
Speaker C:I don't want to keep monologuing so you can interrupt no, no, no, that's.
Speaker B:I got one question.
Speaker B:No, I got one question on that.
Speaker B:Leadership.
Speaker B:Leadership and helping make those decisions.
Speaker B:What are some ways that.
Speaker B:Is that just through dialogue, Ed?
Speaker B:Because you said that's one of some of the most caring thing leaders can do.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Any wisdom a little further on how, you know, is that just questions and answers, Dialogue on how I, you know, I really believe that.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:Because normally when you're in crisis, coaching doesn't work.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because you're.
Speaker B:Your frontal brain, you know, the thinking part of your brain shut down.
Speaker B:You're normally into reacting, not being able to respond.
Speaker B:And so I wholeheartedly agree with what you're, what you're sharing.
Speaker B:And you've been an area director.
Speaker B:You've, you know, you've led at that level.
Speaker B:There are just conversations you walk through or any wisdom on that?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So if they're on the low end of the risk taking spectrum, then I would be through conversation and I'd be like, you know, you have a job to do and, and it does entail taking risks.
Speaker C:And so you really need to either increase your level, level of comfort with taking these risks or, you know, find something else to do.
Speaker C:Yeah, but the.
Speaker C:When they're in crisis.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:As you said, sometimes you have to just step in and say.
Speaker C:And say in the most loving way you can.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:Look, you know, I feel like what we need to do is we need to, we need to remove you from the situation.
Speaker C:And one, one thing that helps is if you can have policies in place ahead of time.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:Like for instance, if we do have a policy that says if there is a spouse or family member that's taken hostage, that the rest of the family is then relocated to another place, it doesn't have to be out of the country, doesn't have to be back to America.
Speaker C:It just means they need to be relocated to a safe place so that then that family can't be used as leverage against the person who's taken captive.
Speaker C:That's a decision that's already made.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:So you don't have to deal with it in the moment, but as a leader, you then, you have to be able to implement that.
Speaker C:You have to have the courage to implement that.
Speaker C:And sometimes you just have to have the courage to step in and say, you know what?
Speaker C:I need you to do this.
Speaker C:Yeah, whatever this is, I just need you to do this.
Speaker C:I need you to leave.
Speaker C:I need you to, you know, relocate.
Speaker C:I need you to stay in touch with me, whatever that is.
Speaker C:You know, obviously conversation is the best way to do it.
Speaker C:Coming to a consensus is the best way to do it.
Speaker C:But in a crisis, as you mentioned, that's not always possible.
Speaker B:For sure.
Speaker B:For sure.
Speaker B:We evacuated twice, I think, from Madagascar.
Speaker B:So we, you know, you get in those.
Speaker B:Those feelings where it's just.
Speaker B:It is valuable for a leader just to say, hey, that I think this is what you should do.
Speaker B:And it takes.
Speaker B:Because I think sometimes in our faith, we feel like if we.
Speaker B:If we leave, we're, you know, abandoning ship and all those type things, and then you wrestle with that.
Speaker B:But to have a leader say, I think this is what.
Speaker B:What's best, and it gives an opportunity for the person to submit to leadership and follow through with that.
Speaker C:And then you can blame the leader.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker C:And as a leader, I was like.
Speaker C:And I would say that.
Speaker C:I say, look, you can blame me.
Speaker C:You can put it on me.
Speaker C:This is my decision, not yours.
Speaker C:But it's usually a relief that they don't have to make the decision, even if they don't agree with the decision.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:And they're in the middle of it.
Speaker B:And so it does help them.
Speaker B:So good deal.
Speaker B:So, Ed, one of the other things in the paper is values.
Speaker B:So we just talked about some principles, and then you share some values that guide us in risk.
Speaker B:What are some of these values that we should embrace when it comes to risk?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So if we look at scripture and we pull out principles, we say, okay, these are the unchanging realities.
Speaker C:And the metaphor I like to use is principles are like the terrain on which we're walking.
Speaker C:It's the ground on which we walk, like it doesn't change.
Speaker C:But our values then are kind of our gps.
Speaker C:How do we navigate from point A to point B if the terrain doesn't change?
Speaker C:But I still want to get from point A to point B.
Speaker C:How do I do that?
Speaker C:And that's through my values.
Speaker C:And the first, there's only four biblical values that we chose to focus on when it comes to risk.
Speaker C:And the first one, obviously, is love.
Speaker C:Love is the foundational value for all Christian ministry.
Speaker C:It is, you know, love God, love others.
Speaker C:I mean, that's the great commandment.
Speaker C:And we have to be able to love others in the way that God loves them.
Speaker C:And so when we risk, we have to both love God enough to trust him to risk and do what he wants, but also love people, his people, enough to risk for them.
Speaker C:So love is one of those guiding principles, like, what is the best way to approach this risk decision that I have to make in life.
Speaker C:So that's one another one related to.
Speaker C:And these all kind of flow one to the other.
Speaker C:And the next value is worship.
Speaker C:So love is the attitude of my heart, but worship works itself out into my actions.
Speaker C:Like, what am I doing to express my love for God, to align my will with his will.
Speaker C:A lot of times, especially in evangelical Christianity, we equate worship with music and singing in church on Sundays.
Speaker C:And that's part of it for sure.
Speaker C:We're aligning our will with Gods through our worship and singing and praising him in that way.
Speaker C:But worship is really what are my actions in alignment with God's will?
Speaker C:And so what is God's will?
Speaker C:And sometimes my act of worship might go as far as offering my body as a living sacrifice.
Speaker C:That would be the ultimate expression of worship if God is asking that of me.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So you have to go back through.
Speaker C:We didn't really cover.
Speaker C:There's a lot more principles.
Speaker C:And we talk about martyrdom and, you know, in the paper.
Speaker C:But God may require that of me.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I have to be willing to do that if that's my act of worship to Him.
Speaker C:And that also takes the next value.
Speaker C:So we've talked about love and worship.
Speaker C:The next value is obedience.
Speaker C:I have to be obedient to what God wants me to do.
Speaker C:That, of course, means that I have to be able to hear his voice.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So that's a pay to play.
Speaker C:As a friend of mine used to say, you got to be able to hear God's voice or you can't.
Speaker C:You know, you can't do anything.
Speaker C:That's kind of where.
Speaker C:That's kind of where Pentecostals.
Speaker C:It's normative for us to, like, listen for the voice of God and hear God's voice.
Speaker C:Like, we.
Speaker C:It's not like we're better than anyone, but we don't.
Speaker C:We don't.
Speaker C:Like, it's not a big deal for us to stop and listen to God's voice.
Speaker C:And so.
Speaker C:And to practice that, to put that into practice.
Speaker C:And then we obey him.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Friend of mine was a missionary in Afghanistan for years and years.
Speaker C:And they're retired now, but not really retired.
Speaker C:They're never really retired.
Speaker C:They were David and Julie Leatherberry and they talked about how, you know, what obedience to God, whatever God asks you to do, it's enough.
Speaker C:It's enough.
Speaker C:You don't have to do more than he asks you.
Speaker C:You don't have to do less than he asks you.
Speaker C:Just whatever he asks you to do, it's enough.
Speaker D:Wow.
Speaker C:And then the final, the final value is faith.
Speaker C:Whatever we do, if it's running away from a risk, avoiding it.
Speaker C:Jesus did that.
Speaker C:If it's facing the risk head on and stepping into it, knowing that the outcome for me could be negative, but for the kingdom is probably going to be positive.
Speaker C:Whatever we do, it has to be done in faith, knowing that that is what God wants us to do.
Speaker C:So those are the four values in a nutshell.
Speaker B:Awesome, Ed.
Speaker B:So as people navigate those values, at times we'll have different team members or maybe team leaders that have different perspectives on risk.
Speaker B:How do we support each other?
Speaker B:When you have colleagues that may maybe have different risk tolerances and then maybe after that we can talk about the tool you've been developing to help people kind of gather where they're at on that risk tolerance spectrum.
Speaker B:So how do we support each other when we, we're still using the same values?
Speaker B:We have the same principles, but we, we could still come to a different place when it comes to risk.
Speaker B:How do we support each other?
Speaker B:And then I'll ask you about the tool.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:One of the things is you have to know what your risk tolerance is, which is, we'll get to the tool in a second.
Speaker C:Why I even worked on developing it with.
Speaker C:It was a group of us that worked on it.
Speaker C:But yeah, you know, if you think about it, if you've got a team leader who is, has a high tolerance for risk and it's not really stated, you know, but as you're on the team, you didn't realize this, but you joined the team and you realized this guy loves taking risks.
Speaker C:And then you look at yourself and you're like, and I really don't.
Speaker C:So that can lead to conflict.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And there's people all over the spectrum.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And the tendency is to look at the high risk taker and say, yeah, they are like, they're more godly because they're willing to take more risks.
Speaker C:And the fact of the matter is maybe not, you know, has nothing necessarily to do with godliness.
Speaker C:It has to do with how they're wired.
Speaker C:And so you really need to set expectations as a team, you know, and talk about, okay, we all have different comfort levels with risk.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:But this is how we're going to operate as a team.
Speaker C:This is the level of risk that we're going to take as a team.
Speaker C:We're not going to go beyond that, but we're not going to.
Speaker C:But we're not going to shy away from that either.
Speaker C:So remember I said it's Enough.
Speaker C:Whatever that expectation is, we have to hold ourselves accountable to that.
Speaker C:So if somebody wants to jump over that and take a big risk when that's not the way the team functions, there has to be discussion before that happens.
Speaker C:You can't just.
Speaker C:Or shouldn't.
Speaker C:You can.
Speaker D:Sure.
Speaker C:You shouldn't just go ahead and do that.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, no, it's a good word.
Speaker B:And, you know, I think the reality of it is too, Ed, some work can be comfortable in certain areas.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Some people are willing to take maybe a risk when it comes to health, not a risk when it comes to education.
Speaker B:So it's multifactorial when it comes in navigating team members, that.
Speaker B:And getting the honor to serve with them, but just the understanding.
Speaker B:And I think what you're.
Speaker B:You're helping us do is put it out there that we can understand under, have a greater understanding of each other.
Speaker B:The expectations are clear.
Speaker B:So there's not.
Speaker B:There's less of a gap between what's expected and what, you know, what we experience.
Speaker B:And it helps us move forward in grace.
Speaker B:So, Ed, a little bit about the tool.
Speaker B:So you recognize this and you worked with a team and you've developed this tool.
Speaker B:Can you share about it?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So again, same thing with Theology of Risk.
Speaker C:I was like, this is missing.
Speaker C:It doesn't exist out there.
Speaker C:But it would be super helpful.
Speaker C:Like, because I took an evaluation that, you know, when I found a financial advisor, they were like, okay, here's this risk tolerance tool about your comfort with investments.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And believe, you know, just like, your, your level of financial risk tolerance, your level of, you know, global worker risk tolerance, kingdom work.
Speaker C:Risk tolerance is going to change over time.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:And from, you know, be depending on how old you are, whether or not you have kids.
Speaker C:You know, all of this can change.
Speaker C:But you have, you know, I was like, why can't there be an evaluation that says, this is where I am right now?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And so I just threw it out there into a group of other people doing jobs like I am from other sending agencies.
Speaker C:And I said, has anyone ever heard of this?
Speaker C:Does it exist?
Speaker C:And everybody said, no, it doesn't exist.
Speaker C:But when you build it, let us know because we sure would like to use it.
Speaker C:Then I got a note from Anna and Neil Hampton are friends of ours and become friends.
Speaker C:She's like, this is something that I've been thinking about working on.
Speaker C:I'm going to develop.
Speaker C:She's super well connected.
Speaker C:So she developed a team of people from multiple organizations.
Speaker C:And we all worked together and we Came up with this risk tolerance inventory.
Speaker C:And then we filtered it through three different clinical psychologists and statisticians.
Speaker C:And we have what I'd like.
Speaker C:It's really a product and it's good and it's helpful, I think.
Speaker C:But it's still.
Speaker C:I would call it beta.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker C:Because I want to make sure we're gonna.
Speaker C:Once we get enough data, we're going to analyze it and say, how can we modify?
Speaker C:How can we make it better?
Speaker C:But, yeah, no, it's been a valuable tool for helping people to have a starting place for discipleship.
Speaker C:If I'm way down on the low risk tolerance end of the spectrum and I'm a global worker, I probably need to bring my risk tolerance up.
Speaker C:I need to work on myself to say I need to be more comfortable with risk because I live just as I said earlier, I have chosen a risky profession.
Speaker C:So if I want to be safe and no risk and, you know, all that, then I probably need to find something else to do.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Or I can ask God to help me to raise it.
Speaker C:If I'm all the way on the other end of the spectrum, I do need to know that about myself.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And I need to make sure that everybody can see that.
Speaker C:And when you put it on a chart and put, like, if you had a team, like, or even a family, and they all did the same risk tolerance inventory, and you see them just scattered across the spectrum.
Speaker C:When you see that and it's actually got a number attached to it, it helps.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And I would imagine it.
Speaker B:It helps create dialogue for discussions and opportunities for understanding.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think that's the.
Speaker B:You mentioned you were an entrepreneur in your life.
Speaker B:So this, I think, is one of those things.
Speaker B:You continually develop these tools.
Speaker B:Ed, is the tool available now?
Speaker B:Or is it.
Speaker B:You said it's in beta.
Speaker B:Is it?
Speaker B:And then how would it.
Speaker C:No, no, it's available to use.
Speaker C:And it's helpful if you go to theologyofrisk.com which is an excellent website, by the way.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker C:Theologyofrisk.com and then there's an option that says RTI, risk tolerance inventory.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker C:You just click on that.
Speaker C:That's at the top.
Speaker C:Banner of the.
Speaker C:Of the.
Speaker B:The website.
Speaker C:Website.
Speaker C:And the goal is right now it's only in English, but the goal is we're getting it worked on and to get it into Spanish, rather Portuguese, German, simplified and traditional Chinese, because it wouldn't matter.
Speaker C:We want this into as many different languages and cultures as possible.
Speaker B:Very cool.
Speaker C:Because the answers are going to be the same, rather the inventory is going to be the same.
Speaker C:It just has to be translated into a different language.
Speaker B:And roughly how long does it take somebody to do the inventory?
Speaker C:I would say, and I could, if I looked it up, I could give you the average today, but no more than 10 minutes.
Speaker D:Okay.
Speaker C:On average 16 questions.
Speaker C:So it depends on how long and hard you think about them.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker C:Could take someone three or four minutes, could take someone 15 minutes, 16 minutes, but probably not more than that.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:Ed, last question I have for you.
Speaker B:And then I'm going to ask you to pray for us.
Speaker B:You're continually honing.
Speaker B:You know, there was a principle when I work on my MBA about the Japanese.
Speaker B:They're continually honing and making something better.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:They're never satisfied, they're never content.
Speaker B:They're continuing making things better continually.
Speaker B:And that's one of their business principles.
Speaker B:But you've done that when you stepped into this role.
Speaker B:You've continually honed it and you continue to adapt it and to make sure that it's the best that it can be.
Speaker B:Can you share about some of those, what your things that you're adapting and changing and how you're improving the training and this tool, the Theology of Risk paper, would definite be part of that.
Speaker B:But any other things you'd like to share that you've been working on?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So one of the things is we're now all required to take three days of in person security training.
Speaker C:Nobody's exempted from it.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker C:And so every training I introduce myself to the class which they are already aware of me as Ed Ny, the security guy and I get a good laugh with that.
Speaker C:And then I tell them this is going to be the best security training that AGWM has ever done, but it's not going to be as good as the next one.
Speaker D:Okay.
Speaker C:Because we always want to evaluate and look at what can we change, what can we tweak.
Speaker C:We're taking more and more in house to make it specific to our organization.
Speaker C:So we'll be talking about a theology of risk as it pertains to like that paper, that was an AGWM position paper.
Speaker C:Will be.
Speaker C:Will be.
Speaker C:We've actually transitioned training our major training providers.
Speaker C:I changed the way that we teach self defense because we don't want you to have to memorize 100 moves to get out of a hold.
Speaker C:We want you to be able to get home.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So one of our workers, one of our global workers, he comes and teaches us, you know, just three things that we can do to just get home safely.
Speaker C:And to avoid trouble.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:So everything like that, I'm really hoping to leverage.
Speaker C:Online training, like, we've already got three courses is probably by June.
Speaker C: s interview, it's early April: Speaker C: By June: Speaker C:So I want to leverage that.
Speaker C:I want to use whatever tools I can because it's.
Speaker C:I don't have a huge team behind me.
Speaker C:It's just basically me and whoever volunteers to help me.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I'm going to leverage AI.
Speaker C:I'm going to do everything that I can to put as many resources as possible into the hands of our global workers to make it easier for them to make those risk decisions so that we can plant the church among all peoples everywhere.
Speaker C:That's the goal.
Speaker C:And if what we do as a security office doesn't facilitate the goal of planting the church among all peoples everywhere, then we've gone off track.
Speaker D:Yeah, it's good.
Speaker B:It's good.
Speaker B:Good word, Ed.
Speaker B:And I love how it.
Speaker B:Security is not separate from.
Speaker B:But it's part of the vision and it's the.
Speaker B:It helps us get to where we want to be and Ed, there.
Speaker B:If I, if there are questions that you think, hey, Aaron, you should have asked me this, or you were waiting for me to.
Speaker B:I know this is a sub.
Speaker B:You're passionate about this.
Speaker B:Any.
Speaker B:Any questions I should have asked you?
Speaker C:You know, Aaron, I.
Speaker C:I can't.
Speaker C:I can't think of any.
Speaker C:There's just so much to talk about.
Speaker C:But it's like, I don't want to be a bore either, but I will say I, I have a publicly available podcast as well, but it's.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's not.
Speaker C:It's three minutes long.
Speaker C:It's just three minutes.
Speaker C:You can consume it by.
Speaker C:You can consume it by video, you can consume it by audio, or you can download the transcript and I'll just send you a link to the page and you can put it in your show notes, or you could look it up on Spotify.
Speaker C:You could say security breach briefs with Ed and I, and you'll find it awesome.
Speaker B:And we'll put it.
Speaker B:We'll definitely put it in the show notes.
Speaker B:Ed, will you pray for us today?
Speaker C:Let's do that.
Speaker C:Lord, thank you so much for your will that.
Speaker C:That all people should have a choice in hearing the gospel and responding to your.
Speaker C:To your offer of participating in your kingdom, Lord God, and, And making you king and Lord of their lives.
Speaker C:So Lord as we send out global workers around the world to to to establish those churches and to preach that gospel Lord understanding that there are risks involved Lord help us to be aware of of the sometimes the turmoil that they go through in making these decisions Lord God and and I do pray for all of them it can be traumatic sometimes Lord and I do pray that you would would be present with them help them to have a sense of peace in their lives that you are in control and that you will help them to make the right decisions and that whatever decision that they make that you can redeem that decision.
Speaker C:Father thank you for your love and your grace and your mercy to all of us Lord and help us all to just continually focus outward Lord to continually expand your kingdom and to not draw into ourselves to not give in to the cultural tendency to be risk averse Lord but to take bold steps for the kingdom and I just ask all these things in your name Amen Amen.
