Pastor Chad Gilligan on Navigating Fatherhood
This podcast episode features a profound dialogue with Pastor Chad Gilligan, who offers invaluable insights into the complexities of fatherhood, particularly in the context of ministry. As we commemorate Father's Day, we explore the multifaceted realities of being a father and a spiritual leader, exploring the delicate balance of nurturing faith both at home and within the church community. Pastor Chad reflects on his experiences, sharing the significance of modeling genuine faith for one's children and the importance of recognizing their unique paths in life, even when they diverge from parental expectations. He emphasizes the necessity of compassion and understanding, particularly in moments of familial strife, drawing parallels to the parable of the prodigal son. Our conversation serves as a clarion call for fathers to engage deeply in their children's spiritual journeys, fostering an environment of love, support, and open communication.
Takeaways:
- The importance of recognizing and nurturing the spiritual leadership role fathers play in their families, as emphasized by Pastor Chad Gilligan.
- The necessity of genuine faith at home, which fosters a healthy spiritual environment for children to grow and develop in their own faith journeys.
- Understanding the dynamics of raising children in ministry, which includes balancing time and involvement in church activities with family life.
- The wisdom of patience and compassion is crucial when dealing with children who may stray from their faith, as demonstrated in the parable of the prodigal son.
- The realization that every child is unique, requiring tailored approaches to parenting that consider their individual personalities and needs.
- The profound impact of prayer, not only for children but also for oneself as a parent, emphasizing the importance of seeking divine guidance and strength.
Transcript
Hey there and welcome back to the Clarity Podcast.
Speaker A:This podcast is all about providing clarity, insight and encouragement for life and mission.
Speaker A:My name is Aaron Santemayr and I get to be your host.
Speaker A:Today we have the phenomenal opportunity to have with us on a podcast, Pastor Chad Gilligan.
Speaker A:This is a special Father's Day episode and I had the opportunity of being with him at his church a few weeks ago.
Speaker A:And so I thought, you know what, it was a joy to be around.
Speaker A:And, you know, for these Mother's Day, Father's Day episodes, they're important to me.
Speaker A:And so I had an opportunity to be with him and his family and thought, yeah, this is the guy I want to have on.
Speaker A:So he agreed to be on the podcast and we just jump into some of the realities.
Speaker A:He's now a senior pastor.
Speaker A:He's been in ministry for quite a few years.
Speaker A:And so as he's had those experiences in different seasons of life, what prayer looks like in different seasons of life, some joys and challenges, the realities of maybe protecting and shielding our kids from unrealistic expectations when we're in life and ministry.
Speaker A:And just a fascinating conversation.
Speaker A:He's engaging.
Speaker A:He makes a podcast host job easy.
Speaker A:And so it was just fun sitting down with Pastor Chad.
Speaker A:So do want to wish all the fathers out there happy Father's Day and really appreciate you engaging and your family and being the spiritual leaders of your home.
Speaker A:Do want to ask you to continue to send in your questions from Backchannel with Foth.
Speaker A:That's where we get to sit down with Dick Foth and get to learn from him.
Speaker A:It's a fun opportunity to always have Dick on the podcast for those special sessions of Back Channel with Foe.
Speaker A:Do want to ask you also to subscribe to the podcast.
Speaker A:I know the podcasts I subscribe to.
Speaker A:They're the ones that show up on my feed Monday or Tuesday.
Speaker A:And I know what I'm going to be listening to throughout the week and do want to thank all you faithful listeners.
Speaker A:Many of you have listened to episode upon episode as we're 300 plus now and just grateful and thankful for you listening in and spreading the word.
Speaker A:I know many of you as I travel and get to speak, get to hear the different connections and the different interviews that have meant a lot to you and it's been joy and fun to do this podcast.
Speaker A:So thank you so much for listening and well, there's no time better than now to get started.
Speaker A:So here we go.
Speaker A:Greetings and welcome back to the Clarity Podcast.
Speaker A:So excited to be here today.
Speaker A:With a friend of the podcast, Chad.
Speaker A:Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker B:Hey.
Speaker B:This is an honor.
Speaker B:Thanks, Aaron.
Speaker A:Chad, you and I got to spend some time together just a few weeks ago, but we met each other back in Madagascar, and then our paths have crossed a few times since then.
Speaker A:But for those who have not got the opportunity to meet you or been to your church, will you share just a little about yourself before I start peppering you with a bunch of questions?
Speaker B:Well, that sounds great.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, no, I'm married to my high school sweetheart, Rhonda, and we've been married for 32 years.
Speaker B:We've got three grown kids.
Speaker B:Two of them are married and two grandkids, which is what really matters.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:That's the most important detail, I think, in all of that.
Speaker B:And they've all kind of grown and are out following the will of God in some different places.
Speaker B:And went Central Bible College, did nine years in kids ministry, and we're the kids pastors here for six years at Calvary Church in Maumee, Ohio, just outside of Toledo, and transitioned from the kids role, skipped a grade and went to the senior pastor role and have been the lead pastor here at Calvary for almost 21 years now.
Speaker B:And so just really honored that the Lord has allowed us to be in a really special church for a long time and thankful for what he's doing here.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:And it was an honor.
Speaker A:Honor you.
Speaker A:You know, I got to speak at your church, and it's a.
Speaker A:It's a fun place to be, and it's.
Speaker A:You can feel, you sense God's presence there.
Speaker A:The people are wonderful, and it was phenomenal.
Speaker A:So today we're going to.
Speaker A:This is the special Father's Day episode.
Speaker A:So I got questions based on being a father and Father's Day.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So question number one.
Speaker A:How did you learn to be a father and.
Speaker A:And specifically a spiritual leader of the home?
Speaker B:Yeah, that's a great question.
Speaker B:You know, for me, personally, I had a great dad and a dad who kind of had a second chance.
Speaker B:I was from my dad's second marriage, and I think that there were some things that he maybe learned the first time around that I watched later and saw, you know, as my own dad saw his work ethic.
Speaker B:I saw the way he loved me.
Speaker B:I saw the way he was willing to invest time and some things that he didn't want to, you know, but.
Speaker B:But he did because he knew it had value to me.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And then my dad, near the end of his life, got cancer, passed away when he was 63 after a two year battle with cancer.
Speaker B:And I watched how he lived out his faith.
Speaker B:My dad wasn't a pastor, but he was the assistant head usher at our church.
Speaker B:And so that's a, that's a pretty big title, you know, back in the day.
Speaker B:And I watched how he lived out his faith when he struggled with sickness.
Speaker B:And that was a huge lesson for me.
Speaker B:So I'm very thankful for my own dad.
Speaker B:But then as a kid's pastor, I had a window for years to watch other fathers and watch and see how they were raising their kids.
Speaker B:And you could see the fruit, you know, both good and bad, you know, kind of a warning to those of you who hear this.
Speaker B:Kids, pastors know an awful lot about what goes on in your home just by watching your kids.
Speaker B:I had a little girl one time who like as a, as a fourth grader was always disrespecting me.
Speaker B:I couldn't figure out why.
Speaker B:And then I realized, oh, it's because her parents don't like me, you know, and you watch that, you know, you watch that process.
Speaker B:And so that was a really great window for us to learn about parenting as we watched our friends, you know, and you, you asked that question about being a spiritual leader.
Speaker B:You know, that's a, that's an interesting challenge when you're a leader somewhere in ministry.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then trying to lead your home at the same time, it's, it's this dynamic of you're a spiritual leader in both places, but you wear different hats in that process.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And I've looked back and thought about it a little bit.
Speaker B:I probably got an F in family devotions.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:As a dad, you know, I don't know that we had the consistency we should have had.
Speaker B:I don't know that we, you know, you go through these different seasons, but I think one of the things that we tried to do was to consistently let our home be a laboratory of spiritual development and one that was genuine.
Speaker B:I think that the thing that I saw over and over again was one of the most deadly things to the faith of a child is hypocrisy from a parent.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:And if, if the parent does not live out at home, what they see, what their kids see them speak other places, it causes this kind of disequilibrium in the kids brains as to what really matters here with regards to faith.
Speaker B:And I'm really thankful we were in a church community that partnered in spiritual development.
Speaker B:But that was, that was, that was huge to go.
Speaker B:How do we live out this faith even in our home?
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:Chad, you shared when your dad was sick, watching him live out his faith, were there some specific things as he lived out his faith, being sick that really, I mean, you highlighted that.
Speaker A:Is there, Were there specific things that you noticed when he was, when he was sick and living out his faith?
Speaker B:You know, they, they went through this two year process.
Speaker B:I say they, my mom and dad were.
Speaker B:For both of them, it was just constant highs and lows that, you know, we're, we're trusting in the Lord.
Speaker B:And yet this procedure didn't work.
Speaker B:And the nature of my dad's cancer meant that over time he lost his teeth.
Speaker B:He at one point had to have part of his tongue removed.
Speaker B:And you watch this whole process that they went through and yet seemed like with each step his, his confidence in Jesus grew.
Speaker B:And I, I can remember, I mean, just clear as day, I was a brand new dad.
Speaker B:You know, our, our son was three months old and they came to visit us.
Speaker B:And my, my mom and Rhonda went in the grocery store to get something, and my dad and I circled the parking lot because if we didn't, our son was going to start screaming in the backseat.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You know those.
Speaker B:When you're driving with the baby.
Speaker A:Oh, for sure.
Speaker B:And, and I don't know where the conversation came from, but I just remember I looked over at my dad and I asked him, you know, dad, are you scared?
Speaker B:Like, and that wasn't necessarily even what we were talking about.
Speaker B:It's just something that I carried because at this point, we knew the Lord didn't do something like his.
Speaker B:His life was going to be short.
Speaker B:And he looked at me with the most puzzled look when I asked him that question.
Speaker B:He looked at me, he goes, am I scared?
Speaker B:Because I'm not scared.
Speaker B:I've got Jesus.
Speaker B:And it wasn't like, it wasn't just the pastor's answer.
Speaker B:It wasn't like just what you're supposed to say.
Speaker B:Like, it came from his heart in a way that was really unique.
Speaker B:And I, and I watched that form in him, that, that spiritual development that happened in his life, even through struggle, right through difficulty.
Speaker B:And that was really powerful, both for me to see my dad's courage, but then also in my own life to go, God, I know you're sovereign, but I also know you're good and that you can be trusted.
Speaker B:And he had a piece that was definitely scripturally, it passed all understanding.
Speaker B:And so, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker B:That's the first thing comes to my mind when you ask that question.
Speaker A:Good word, you know, and the other thing you shared was about the.
Speaker A:As a father living out, you know, being the same person.
Speaker A:That's one thing.
Speaker A:With my dad, he was.
Speaker A:My dad was a railroader.
Speaker A:He was deacon of church, but he was the same person at work as he was at home, as he was at church.
Speaker A:You know, and as you said, that, that resonated with me, just seeing he was the same person.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It wasn't.
Speaker A:He didn't change personalities.
Speaker A:He didn't.
Speaker A:You know, it was just.
Speaker A:He was a railroader, wherever he was at in West Virginia to boot.
Speaker A:But it spoke to me that I could, if I was really going to follow Christ, my integr and my character would speak.
Speaker A:And anyway, no, it's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's a good word.
Speaker A:So the idea of when you, you talked about having.
Speaker A:You were in ministry and you had younger kids at home, I think a lot of the.
Speaker A:There's, you know, missionaries that are listening into this, trying to balance having younger kids at home, being involved in ministry, and then some of the tensions that are there.
Speaker A:How did you navigate those?
Speaker B:You know, I think the very first thing to say is I'm so thankful for a wise spouse, you know, like that.
Speaker B:That has been, you know, in so many ways, as I've looked back over the years, such a gift to me as a dad was the partnership that I had with Rhonda.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so very thankful for that.
Speaker B:And I know that that's not everybody's story.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You know, God helps so many single parents, and, you know, we all go through different seasons.
Speaker B:But I've said so many times, you know, the greatest gift of God's grace to me, outside of what Jesus said on the cross, was the fact that he allowed me to be married to Rhonda.
Speaker B:And that's, you know, such a huge thing in that process of younger kids because we were each able to help check each other's ambition in different seasons.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And she had to help me to know when to say no to certain things in ministry and those priorities that come, you know, through that process.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so one of the key things that our kids have said over the years is they were so thankful for what they got to be involved in as they looked back.
Speaker B:So that when we were able to involve our kids in ministry with us and not make it something that was separate everything from the memories that they have.
Speaker B:I remember we did a major construction process when our kids were young, and it could have been a season where we could have said, hey, stay home with the babysitter.
Speaker B:But they were, they were, you know, literally, you know, knee deep in things.
Speaker B:Our, you know, our 12 year old at the time found himself in a, you know, three foot grease trap with, you know, four middle aged guys standing around going, you're cleaning that thing out.
Speaker B:Really good kid, you know, and it's like, it's funny now, but it shaped, you know, him and how he saw the church and relationships and those were, those were huge things.
Speaker B:And our kids have even said afterwards, like, we're thankful that there are skills we have, people skills and like actual, you know, physical skills that we have that we would not have had if we had not been around certain ministry contexts and everything from dealing with people to, you know, knowing how a soundboard runs.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You know, all those things.
Speaker B:And so, so that was, that was really important, you know, and I, I know that along the way our kids probably took more hits than we realized, you know, and the, the pressures that come with ministry in different seasons.
Speaker B:But we're very thankful for the opportunity to involve them in that.
Speaker B:And then the, the ownership that came, you know, in that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:How do you talk about hits?
Speaker A:How, how do you navigate?
Speaker A:Because there's, there's certain people that are, that are listening to this, me being one of them.
Speaker A:You know, I didn't grow up in a ministry family, so my dad wasn' so you, you know, those, those hits or those, maybe those unrealistic expectations.
Speaker A:How did you, you know, you were a children's pastor, senior, you've been a senior lead pastor.
Speaker A:How did you navigate those?
Speaker A:Or maybe did you have to shield your kids from those, those unrealistic expectations?
Speaker A:How did you navigate those?
Speaker B:I remember getting good advice early on about being careful what you said about people in front of your kids, you know, and so I think as parents we were cautious if we had to talk about a negative situation and like it's human, right?
Speaker B:We could say that we never speak poorly about other people, but there are times when you gotta say, what were they thinking?
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Like, what was that?
Speaker B:If you're shepherding people, sometimes you go, where's that sheep going?
Speaker B:You know, kind of thing.
Speaker B:And so, but we tried to be careful what we said, the tone we used.
Speaker B:And so that, that was key, you know, I think to help our kids love the church.
Speaker B:I also remember a season though, where I watched things begin to change, where our kids had the common sense and wisdom to go, what is that person thinking, dad, like, mom, why, why would they be like that?
Speaker B:And, and to be able to address the humanity of people as well as, you know, the spiritual side.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because I think it was important for us to understand from our kids perspective that people are human.
Speaker B:There will be frustrations, there will be disappointments, but at the same time, we love and we help people through those things.
Speaker B:I don't know that I taught my kids this, But I remember Dr.
Speaker B:Richard Dobbins from Emerge Ministries saying years ago, expect the saints to act like sinners and then be surprised when they don't.
Speaker B:And that has been really helpful for me, you know, to just go, okay, I need to keep my expectations in a healthy place.
Speaker B:And yeah, I think there were, there were times and situations and people that we did know.
Speaker B:We want to be wise.
Speaker B:What, you know, we open our kids up to.
Speaker B:We want to weigh those priorities.
Speaker B:That's, you know, the times when Rhonda had to check and go, hey, you know, maybe we should talk about this before you say yes to that opportunity.
Speaker B:You know, those kinds of moments.
Speaker B:And then it's interesting, I had a conversation recently with, with a, A young mom who was a PK at a different church, different denomination.
Speaker B:But I just asked her, I said, what, what do you, what do you wish, you know, you could say to.
Speaker B:To young dads in ministry?
Speaker B:She did not even blink an eye.
Speaker B:She just said, make sure your kids know they're the priority.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:And that one came from a really deep place.
Speaker B:But two really crystallizes it, you know, that, that if I can keep that a priority, I can believe that God will help me with those other things.
Speaker A:Wow, that's a good word.
Speaker A:Good word.
Speaker A:Chad, when it comes to, you know, you've, you're.
Speaker A:You said your kids are grown, two of them are married.
Speaker A:How have your prayers changed over the seasons of life?
Speaker A:Prayer from them?
Speaker A:You know, they're different seasons of life.
Speaker A:And honestly, your different seasons of life, how's your prayer life changed for them in those seasons of life?
Speaker B:You know, I can remember and I'm thankful for this.
Speaker B:Like when our, when our first child was born, you know, you want to develop rhythms right away where you're praying for and with them.
Speaker B:And even before he knew, I kind of developed a rhythm of praying that, that they would be safe and strong and that the Lord would help them to love him.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:That was just kind of those three things over and over again.
Speaker B:I want to be physically safe.
Speaker B:I want them to be healthy and strong emotionally, physically, and that their heart from an early age would, would, would be turned towards the Lord, you know, and so in some ways, I don't know that my prayer has changed all that much.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:Like, it's.
Speaker B:It's still the same prayer.
Speaker B:I still pray for their physical protection.
Speaker B:I still pray for their health.
Speaker B:I still pray for their spiritual well being.
Speaker B:But it's seasonal, Right.
Speaker B:We've had kids who have been in different seasons of life, in seasons where we've watched their spiritual lives.
Speaker B:Where you go, okay, I know this is a season where I spiritually need to pray for them more or I physically need to pray for them more.
Speaker B:When both of our sons have spent extended periods of time outside of the country, and you go, lord, I know I need to pray for them in a way that's different now than when they were under my roof.
Speaker B:I also think my.
Speaker B:My prayers have shifted probably a lot in the sense that I used to pray, lord, as a parent, give me wisdom and discernment.
Speaker B:And I think at some point my prayers had to shift to, lord, give them wisdom and discernment.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because on the one hand, there's a season of time where I'm really leading them, and, Lord, help me not to mess this up.
Speaker B:And then there's another season where it's like, lord, would you bless them with the wisdom and discernment they need?
Speaker B:Because that's really key.
Speaker B:One of the biggest lessons I had to learn was that our kids can hear from the Holy Spirit just like we can.
Speaker B:Because there's seasons where your kids will make decisions that wouldn't be the decisions that you would make.
Speaker B:You know, I.
Speaker B:All three of our kids, like, I can.
Speaker B:I can look back and go, well, honestly, that's not the will of Chad for your life, you know, and I want them to be in the will of Chad, you know, and the will of Chad is, you know, that they're in my living room eating a meal, watching a football game every Sunday afternoon, you know, but they live all over.
Speaker B:None of them are in town anymore.
Speaker B:I know they're all in the will of God.
Speaker B:They're just not in the will of Chad.
Speaker B:And I have to come to terms with the fact that I would much rather them be in the will of God than in the will of Chad.
Speaker B:And that was a lesson of knowing that they can hear from the Holy Spirit just as much as I can.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Chad, you mentioned that two of your children have spent some time overseas.
Speaker A:How have you.
Speaker A:Your church, you love missions, you love the world.
Speaker A:You're.
Speaker A:You're engaged in that, but sometimes loving the world is for other people.
Speaker A:And you, you know, you can do that from Ohio, but then, you know, when you, you've raised your kids to, to love the world and to, to hear God's voice.
Speaker A:And you said to, to sense the Holy Spirit, what he's asking, how have you navigated that when they were answering that call?
Speaker A:To do that maybe when they weren't in the will of Chad, to stay, you know, close to home.
Speaker A:How, how do you navigate, how do you navigate that season or those seasons?
Speaker B:I think, you know, at first, you know, for us, our kids have, all three of them at times have said, hey, this is what we're thinking.
Speaker B:You know, I can remember probably the first time was when our son was 14 or 15 and he was making kind of a major shift in, where he wanted to put some of his focus.
Speaker B:And, you know, your first, I think your first step is always to be protective, right?
Speaker B:Like, I just want to shield you.
Speaker B:Are you sure?
Speaker B:I don't want you to miss out.
Speaker B:I don't want you to find, you know, there's all those things and being willing to have the patience to go, okay, tell me why, tell me why you're feeling this.
Speaker B:Where's this coming from?
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:And being able to distinguish the difference between a peace that comes from the Holy Spirit and a peace that comes from my own concerns, you know, or my own desires.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so that was key.
Speaker B:Like, let's, let's talk about this and then let's take steps on this.
Speaker B:Like, let's, you know, and an openness to that.
Speaker B:And of course those things change when all of a sudden, you know, it's, it's not just you and your 14 year old, it's them and their spouse telling you what they think the Lord wants.
Speaker B:And you.
Speaker B:I remember when our first grandchild was about to be born, Rhonda said to me, you know, I think they're thinking of a couple of these names for the, for the baby.
Speaker B:And I remember I almost said to her, well, they're definitely not naming the baby any of those names.
Speaker B:And I had to realize, like, they don't care what I think.
Speaker B:Like, it's not my decision anymore.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:So, so I think it's, you know, being careful with that.
Speaker B:One of the things I did see, though, and I'm thankful, is that I saw some dads in particular really push back on their kids, especially in the area of missions when their kids said, I think the Lord's leading me this way.
Speaker B:And even dads that were pastors or dads that were leaders in the church go, ah, you're not doing that.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, you're not going to that place, you're not going to be a part of that thing without being open to the fact that, you know, the will of Chad and the will of God are two different things.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And, and what I've watched happen is that when we push back on our kids, when the Holy Spirit is leading them in a certain direction, it puts our kids in such a no win situation.
Speaker B:And somewhere, one, if not both father relationships are going to be damaged.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like if you're pushing back, it can cause your child to be bitter towards their earthly father and it can cause your child to question if they're truly hearing from their heavenly father.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:And so both of those relationships come in jeopardy if we are too resistant to what God wants to do in the life of our kids because of what it's going to cost us somewhere along the lines.
Speaker B:And that's, that's hard.
Speaker B:It's not easy, but it's a tricky line to walk.
Speaker A:Oh, man.
Speaker A:For sure.
Speaker A:Chad, what are some of the prayers that you pray for yourself as a father?
Speaker A:I asked you a question about for your kids, that they would be healthy and strong.
Speaker A:What are some prayers that maybe you pray for yourself?
Speaker B:For myself.
Speaker B:I think the longer I've been a dad, the more I realize I need the fruit of the spirit.
Speaker B:I suppose that's one of the, you know, and different fruit in different seasons.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, I think, I think that's, that's been key.
Speaker B:You know, Lord, help me to have love when I need it, to have kindness when I need it.
Speaker B:You know, those, those different fruit, I think are key.
Speaker B:I've had to ask the Lord at times.
Speaker B:Lord, help, help me to not miss key moments.
Speaker B:Don't, don't let busyness or, or the, the pool of ministry caused me to miss things.
Speaker B:And, you know, your kids end up in different seasons and your prayers change in those different seasons, even of what your, what your role is, what your presence is in their lives in those different seasons.
Speaker B:And so I think that's been really key.
Speaker B:I want to be the spouse that I need to be.
Speaker B:That's a prayer that.
Speaker B:It's interesting how my spousal health affects every other part of my home health.
Speaker B:And so that, that becomes a real key.
Speaker B:One of the best things I can do to be a healthy dad is do everything I can to help Rhonda be a healthy mom and be the best spouse that I can be because there's something, the natural that flows out of that in our relationship with, with the kids.
Speaker B:And so, yeah, that's That's, I think something that, that over time and then those first change too, when you become a grandfather.
Speaker B:And that's, that's been an interesting season.
Speaker B:I mean, we've got two one's, one's two and a half years old, the other one's two and a half months old.
Speaker B:And it's interesting how those, you know, how those prayers have changed in how I pray for myself and how I pray for my kids, you know, and I, I find my grandkids prayers being more future focused, which is really interesting.
Speaker B:Praying into their future in a way that is.
Speaker B:Is really kind of exciting.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think as a father, I was so praying in the future was hard for me because I was just focused on trying to get through today, you know, or get through the day when they're.
Speaker A:When they were young.
Speaker A:And it's not.
Speaker A:Had nothing to do with my kids.
Speaker A:Just, you know, it's.
Speaker A:It's all new.
Speaker A:At least when I was a younger father, it was all new.
Speaker A:I remember we went to a.
Speaker A:A friend's house one night we were in Madagascar and that, you know, walked in and the guy said, I just want to tell you it gets better.
Speaker A:It gets better.
Speaker A:You know, it was and it wasn't.
Speaker A:It wasn't because of my kids, but, you know, it's just a reality.
Speaker A:You're.
Speaker A:You're trying to do your best as a father, but at the same time, you're making a bunch of decisions in a compressed amount of time.
Speaker A:And, you know, when you make a lot of decisions in a compressed amount of time, it.
Speaker A:They have, you know, they have, they do impact the future.
Speaker A:So you're trying to.
Speaker A:You're trying to make the best one.
Speaker A:And the.
Speaker A:I think some of the days I carried some of that weight a little, little longer and a little more than.
Speaker A:Than I should have in those times.
Speaker B:You know, I was, I was 50 when my mom passed a couple years ago.
Speaker B:And I think even up to that point, she still viewed me as an experiment.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, she was like, I hope Chad ends up okay.
Speaker B:You know, I'm a little.
Speaker B:So I, I don't know that we're ever done parenting.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And, and, and so our, our kids, we're very, we're very thankful and we're very proud.
Speaker B:And I think sometimes people see the season of life that our kids are in, that our family's in, and they will say something like, how'd you do it?
Speaker B:How'd you do it?
Speaker B:I had a friend ask me just the other day and the number of Times I looked at Rhonda over the years and said, am I wrecking them?
Speaker B:I think I'm ruining them.
Speaker B:Like you said, you're doing a lot in that compressed amount of time.
Speaker B:What do they say?
Speaker B:The days are long, but the years are short.
Speaker B:And that is so true.
Speaker B:And so making the most of those moments, trusting the Lord with each one of those moments is really key.
Speaker A:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker A:Chad is a pastor of a large church and in a major city.
Speaker A:What are some of the cultural trends you're seeing when it comes to fathers and fatherhood?
Speaker A:And maybe some positive.
Speaker A:Maybe some not so positive.
Speaker B:You know, I think there is kind of an awareness right now of, and you might even say a pendulum shift that we're seeing moving back towards recognizing the importance of fatherhood and that investment.
Speaker B:I think dads have been beat up and continue to be beat up.
Speaker B:I think we can say, oh, look at the media, and dads are being beat up.
Speaker B:And that biblical model of the home, I think, has been under the microscope a lot, and culturally gets beat up a lot.
Speaker B:I do think there's a trend that's moving back towards the importance of a dad in the life of their kids.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The challenge of that, though, is we just have so many.
Speaker B:I'd say young dads, but I think dads in general who lack models of what healthy fatherhood is.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:So many guys that I interact with that I just realized they don't have the same blessing of experience that I have.
Speaker B:They can't say, look, my dad was a great dad.
Speaker B:To me.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:They don't have, you know, that.
Speaker B:And then you throw in social media, which is a wonderful tool, but there's so many experts.
Speaker B:So, you know, on Monday, you get one discipline tip, and then on Tuesday, Instagram gives you the total opposite discipline tip.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:So we lack models.
Speaker B:I do think, too, you know, in our culture, there's a little bit right now of a slowness to maturity.
Speaker B:Like, I think sometimes I don't know that dads.
Speaker B:And I don't know that I did either, looking back, but I don't know that they sense the weight of the calling until they're, you know, in it long enough to go, oh, I wish that I had.
Speaker B:And I think this is a part of that mentoring thing, you know, and one of the things that came pretty fast to us in parenting was that little guy showing up meant that there were things in my life that needed to be sacrificed.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:There were things that Chad liked that had to be sidelined because Chad's A dad now, you know, kind of thing.
Speaker B:And, and, and so an openness to be willing to die to some selfishness and, and put some things aside and prioritize the eternal.
Speaker B:You know, I think as a pastor, that's one of the things that I, I see quite often is, you know, I love it that parents are investing and spending time in the life of their kids, the activities their kids are interested in.
Speaker B:But the last I checked, I'm pretty sure we're not playing lacrosse in heaven and.
Speaker B:Or you're not going to go pro.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so I see sometimes there's a sacrifice of some eternal relationships and things for things that are just going to prove too temporal in the long term.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's a, it's a, it's a tight line to walk.
Speaker A:Oh, and I think the other thing is, I'm learning.
Speaker A:Learning is also sometimes it's unfair to hold the parents of the past, fathers of the past to the expectations of today.
Speaker A:And so, you know, I think majority of the fathers there was, there's been a shift over time.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:That it was the, the role of the father was to provide the family and they were doing their best.
Speaker A:I mean, there, there are fathers out there that, that we're just trying to, you know, disengaged, but there were many of them that were doing the best they could with what they knew to do and were engaged.
Speaker A:And so sometimes I'm slow to criticize the past with the, the knowledge we have today.
Speaker A:And so I think balancing that too, that's not to excuse bad fathers.
Speaker A:And that, that's not what I'm saying.
Speaker A:But I am saying that some of some good men who love Jesus and were trying to do their best, you know, talking about emotions and talking about feelings, that that was just not something that was modeled to them and to hold today them to that expectation.
Speaker A:Sometimes I think might.
Speaker A:Might be.
Speaker A:Might be unfair.
Speaker A:Might be unfair.
Speaker B:So even if we have a missional mindset, isn't.
Speaker B:Isn't that the whole idea, understanding that culture?
Speaker B:And you know, I think, I think in some ways we, we fail to recognize it's not, it wasn't a foreign culture by geography, but it was by time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so much has changed in all of that.
Speaker B:And that's where, you know, finding ways to help individuals have healthy models.
Speaker B:Every so often I'll have a dad in the church say to me, oh, I was having a conversation with this guy, and I'm like, how do you even know that guy?
Speaker B:You know, who's, who's 30 years older than you and all these things.
Speaker B:It's like, well, we sit next to each other in service, and now this dad that's a little further down the line is speaking into the life.
Speaker B:I think that's something that I'm learning right now, is there is culturally a desire for especially young adults, young dads, to have someone who's speaking into their life.
Speaker B:We had a meeting of a bunch of young adults here at the church not too long ago.
Speaker B:I remember the one young lady said to me, look, we love it that you want us as young adults to get together.
Speaker B:She says, but I can tell you I don't need just peers.
Speaker B:I need mentors.
Speaker B:I need people who are going to speak into my life.
Speaker B:And finding that in a healthy way, I think is.
Speaker B:Is a.
Speaker B:Is a really special thing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Chad, you mentioned.
Speaker A:We were talking about earlier on about decisions our kids are making.
Speaker A:The will of Chad, the will of God, maybe there's a father listening in, and their kids made some decisions that are.
Speaker A:Maybe it has to do with faith.
Speaker A:Different things that are far off the path that they would have desired for them any.
Speaker A:And they're discouraged.
Speaker A:And even though they know, you know, it's.
Speaker A:God loves their kids more than they do, they still.
Speaker A:There's still sometimes some dark moments or some.
Speaker A:Some down moments where they.
Speaker A:They're.
Speaker A:They're feeling the weight of it.
Speaker A:Any words of encouragement for them?
Speaker B:Yeah, I, you know, I think the.
Speaker B:The parable of the prodigal son actually helps us with that, you know, because you see the role of the father so prominent in that parable.
Speaker B:Jesus doesn't use this language, but in my mind, he's sitting on the front porch, right?
Speaker B:And he's.
Speaker B:And he's.
Speaker B:And he's waiting, you know, for that child.
Speaker B:And it's interesting.
Speaker B:You know, there's kind of a process that you watch the father go through, and one of them is that that child has to come to their senses.
Speaker B:And so I think it's really important for us to know that the only way that child comes to their senses is if they find themselves in a place where they're open to the Holy Spirit to help them come to that place.
Speaker B:We don't always know what that's going to take.
Speaker B:So we pray that.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:We pray that that child will come to their senses, especially if it's things that, you know, that they've known.
Speaker B:But what's so interesting about that parable is with regards to that father figure, it has so much to do with the compassion that's in the father and the families that I've seen where there has been, let's say, a prodigal child or a prodigal spouse, and then there comes some healing and restoration.
Speaker B:So many times the prodigal has to come to their senses, but often it comes because at some point, there's a base of compassion in that parent or in that spouse, that how they respond with compassion and with love.
Speaker B:Each setting is so different.
Speaker B:It's so unique.
Speaker B:Each child is so unique.
Speaker B:Their personalities, their experiences, the influences that they have in different seasons.
Speaker B:But there's something about that consistent love.
Speaker B:So much of that story of the prodigal son has to do with the character of the father.
Speaker B:And I think we can have a tendency to focus on how far our loved one is when maybe part of what God's trying to work out in that season for us is to help us be more like him and, and, and to, to work that out, to see our character.
Speaker B:Young man that I've known for 25 years, you know, from the time he was a little kid and can trace and watch a history of bad decisions, but through all of that, God has led him back.
Speaker B:And now, you know, every Sunday as he walks out of the building, I'm getting a handshake or a high five.
Speaker B:And so much of that, I know, was love consistently and prayers diligently from parents who loved him through a season that was much longer and much harder than they ever thought it would have been.
Speaker B:And, you know, it's a long time to us oftentimes when our.
Speaker B:When our kids stray.
Speaker B:But in the big scheme of eternity, we've got to just trust God that he's working it out somehow through his grace and will help them to come to their senses.
Speaker B:But my first job is to go, okay, so who's the father that I need to be?
Speaker B:So, yeah, those are tough, tough seasons and finding people who will pray with you through those seasons, and not just the, okay, I'll pray with you people, but people who will literally pray with you, you know, and, and you know that you.
Speaker B:You can trust them to do that during those times.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's a good word.
Speaker A:Last question I have for you, and then I'm gonna ask you to pray for us.
Speaker A:Today.
Speaker A:You mentioned.
Speaker A:We talked earlier and you shared about, you know, you maybe didn't get the best grade when it came to devotions every day.
Speaker A:And some, some of the.
Speaker A:The fathers are listening into this.
Speaker A:You know, they're in public ministry, but at the same time, when it comes at home, they.
Speaker A:They struggle with it, right?
Speaker A:They can stand up and preach in front of a crowd.
Speaker A:They can pray in front of a crowd.
Speaker A:They can, you know, lead people to Jesus.
Speaker A:But when it comes to home, maybe all their words are used up.
Speaker A:They've used all their words up.
Speaker A:And they.
Speaker A:They're not.
Speaker A:They're struggling.
Speaker A:There any.
Speaker A:Just any words of encouragement for them, somebody who's publicly is a spiritual leader, but at home, they just.
Speaker A:They just don't feel like they're making the great.
Speaker B:You know, two things that would come to mind, I would think.
Speaker B:You know, remember that you're a shepherd, and you're a gardener, right?
Speaker B:And the shepherd cares for each sheep.
Speaker B:And at some point, I have to recognize I need to know what's going on in the life of that child.
Speaker B:I can remember one time, one of our kids just.
Speaker B:This has never happened to you, Aaron.
Speaker B:But just pushed all my buttons.
Speaker B:And it was bedtime.
Speaker B:They were in junior high.
Speaker B:And I remember, you know, going in and saying to Rhonda, I'm gonna go in and give that kid a piece of my mind.
Speaker B:Like, I was this.
Speaker B:The hammer was coming down.
Speaker B:And she had the wisdom to say to me, like, I don't know that that's a great idea.
Speaker B:And I'm like, why?
Speaker B:And she says, because they're me.
Speaker B:They're not you.
Speaker B:You would need a hammer.
Speaker B:But if my dad did that, it would have pushed me away from him.
Speaker B:She said, you got to realize he has more of my personality than he does yours.
Speaker B:And I was so thankful for the gracious way she said that.
Speaker B:But, you know, it was a lesson to me to back off and go, I need to shepherd that sheep.
Speaker B:He's not me.
Speaker B:You know, I need to shepherd that sheep.
Speaker B:And so recognizing that you're shepherding your kids, you're making an investment, you know, in their lives for the long term.
Speaker B:So you're a shepherd, but you're also a gardener.
Speaker B:I was in a leadership group one time that was being facilitated by a pastor named Larry Osborne.
Speaker B:For decades, Larry pastored North Coast Church out near San Diego.
Speaker B:And there's a group of young pastors, and somehow the topic came up about raising our kids, and some of these guys were just walking through the masterpieces they were doing.
Speaker B:You know, it's.
Speaker B:It's pajama night with dad, and it's donut night with dad.
Speaker B:Dad.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:You know, we do this with our kids, and we're reading the Greek New Testament.
Speaker B:I mean, all this stuff that you're just like, oh, man.
Speaker B:And I remember I walked up to Larry afterwards, and I just was kind of, larry, I think I'm a failure, you know, kind of thing.
Speaker B:And he looked at me and he said.
Speaker B:He said, what you really need to do is just watch the fruit.
Speaker B:Like, what's the fruit that's coming out of your kid's life?
Speaker B:If they're.
Speaker B:If they're growing good fruit, then you keep doing what you're doing.
Speaker B:And if you watch the fruit and it needs you, you need to change the watering schedule.
Speaker B:You need to add some fertilizer.
Speaker B:Like, there is something about the shepherding, the gardening, the paying attention to all of that, that's so key and so significant.
Speaker B:And in all of that, the power of prayer is so key as well.
Speaker B:Not only that you're praying, but that other people are praying even as I'm talking.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:Sorry, I know I'm talking a lot, but, like, your.
Speaker B:About how did you learn to be a dad?
Speaker B:Have you ever heard that phrase where people say, like, he was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple?
Speaker B:Have you ever heard that?
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:Like somebody who has privilege, you know, that.
Speaker B:That they think they.
Speaker B:I know that spiritually I was born on third base.
Speaker B:That I have.
Speaker B:I have generations of people before me who prayed for me.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that there are blessings in my life that have come because there are prayers being answered in my life, in the life of my kids that I never prayed.
Speaker B:But my.
Speaker B:My grandma sat and prayed with her Bible open, listening to preachers on the radio.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:For.
Speaker B:For me and my kids before they were ever born.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:I could trace those stories in my life.
Speaker B:And so, you know, if you're struggling with some of this, if you're.
Speaker B:If you're wondering where that's at, like, keep praying for your kids, keep trusting the Lord that that blessing is going to get poured out in their lives.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker A:Amen.
Speaker A:Chad, will you pray for us today?
Speaker B:Yeah, I'd love to.
Speaker B:Father, we thank you for the model you've given us as our heavenly Father, as the one who loves us with compassion and with grace and who helps us, who nurtures us and leads us and shepherds us.
Speaker B:And, Lord, I pray in particular for the parents that are listening to this podcast today that you encourage them.
Speaker B:Lord, all of us find these moments where we wonder how we're doing, what kind of grade we would get in the parenting roles you've called us to.
Speaker B:And so I pray that you would encourage those who may be frustrated today.
Speaker B:You'd strengthen those who are weary.
Speaker B:And Lord, I pray that you would help moms and dads to see an eternal perspective on the things that you've called them to do.
Speaker B:That you would empower them by your Holy Spirit to lead and guide, to have wisdom and peace and discernment in their homes.
Speaker B:And, Lord, that the grandparents, Lord, would have insight to know how to love and shepherd and pray for their grandchildren.
Speaker B:And that each step of the way, God, that you would help us to build families.
Speaker B:That would be places, God, where you could be glorified, Lord, where people would see Jesus.
Speaker B:But even more, that there would be a blessing that would carry on from generation to generation.
Speaker B:So, Lord, would you help us?
Speaker B:We pray in Jesus name.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker A:Amen.
