Randy Jumper on Building Genuine Relationships: Beyond Transactional Engagement in Missions
This podcast episode features an enlightening dialogue with Pastor Randy Jumper, who offers invaluable insights into the evolving dynamics of partnerships between missionaries and local churches. The focus of our discussion centers on the necessity for a paradigm shift in how we perceive and engage in these partnerships, moving from a transactional mindset to one of genuine relational investment. Pastor Jumper emphasizes the importance of mutual understanding and communication, advocating for missionaries to approach their supporters with a spirit of collaboration rather than mere solicitation. He further illuminates the challenges faced by the American church in the post-COVID landscape, highlighting the need for missionaries to be acutely aware of these shifts. Ultimately, this conversation seeks to inspire both missionaries and church leaders to foster deeper connections that transcend traditional boundaries, thereby enriching the mission of the church in a global context.
Transcript
Hey, there.
Speaker A:Welcome back to the Clarity Podcast.
Speaker B:This.
Speaker A:This podcast is all about providing clarity insight, encouragement for life and mission.
Speaker A:My name is Aaron Sandemier and I get to be your host.
Speaker A:Today.
Speaker A:We have the phenomenal opportunity to have with us on the podcast Pastor Randy Jumper.
Speaker A:Randy is a pastor in North Little Rock, Arkansas.
Speaker A:He's a friend.
Speaker A:He's somebody that understands both sides of being a missionary and then also being a pastor in a local church.
Speaker A:And so he.
Speaker A:I just wanted to sit down and learn from him.
Speaker A:I heard him give a presentation a few years ago on things that would be valuable for global workers and missionaries to understand in the local church.
Speaker A:Those were just.
Speaker A:That was maybe just after Covid and some of the challenges the local church was facing.
Speaker A:Just really a phenomenal conversation.
Speaker A:He shares about the best way to communicate, whether that's, you know, when you're overseas, how do you communicate back to the church?
Speaker A:He talks about the.
Speaker A:What partnership, how he sees partnership in the days ahead and it becomes more of being with rather than being a partner in.
Speaker A:And so then he talks about, you know, how missionaries, when we're visiting churches, how we can be better listeners, how we can engage in conversation so it just doesn't become a transactional relationship.
Speaker A:Hey, you sign my pledge form.
Speaker A:Moving on.
Speaker A:But there's actually a relationship and we can hear and understand and be there.
Speaker A:And he gives a few good starter questions that I think we could all ask when we're in places to help us create conversation and move the relationship in a way that's healthy and whole.
Speaker A:Also talks about, you know, maybe some of the challenges that the American church is facing that maybe a missionary wouldn't.
Speaker A:Wouldn't know about because they're not experiencing it.
Speaker A:They don't understand all the intricacies of what the local church is up against.
Speaker A:And Randy provides some great insight on that also.
Speaker A:And then he talks about the realities of the current generation and the younger generation, when trends that he's seeing when it comes to them being called and being involved and mission in the global world that we live in.
Speaker A:Really appreciated having him on.
Speaker A:Just great wisdom and insight, and I think it helps us all as we move this forward.
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Speaker A:We're on five, five years, more than 300 episodes and it's been a joy to do this.
Speaker A:It's been a joy to be on this journey together and looking forward to the days ahead.
Speaker A:Well, there's no time better than now to get started.
Speaker A:So here we go.
Speaker A:Greetings and welcome back to the Clarity Podcast.
Speaker A:So excited to be here with a new friend of the podcast, Randy Jumper.
Speaker A:Randy, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker B:Hey, it's great to be on you and talk to all my friends around the world.
Speaker A:Hey Randy, you and I have gotten to know each other probably more in the last year than we had before.
Speaker A:But if somebody's listening in, they've not heard the name Randy Jumper.
Speaker A:Could you share just a little bit about yourself before I start asking you a bunch of questions?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I think Jermaine to this the missions pastor at First Assembly God North Rock, Arkansas I have been missions pastor for 20 years here so been a part of that process quite a bit and got to be along the way because of the nature of my pastor and our engagement involvement with missions.
Speaker B:Got to work on a bunch of little side AGWM projects of the year.
Speaker B:So I feel pretty well connected to to most of the initiatives that are taking place, those kinds of things get to get part of them and kind of in a side gig my night job right now I'm sort of doing a fly by night deal with Rwanda and so been working there helping them get their Bible school accreditation.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And is the when this airs it'll be I'll be the former East Africa area director.
Speaker A:But I am very thankful Rwanda is part of East Africa and we've been very thankful and grateful for your engagement and your love and to help help us in training in Rwanda.
Speaker A:Randy, today we're going to talk about your wisdom and insight when it comes to everything or most things that missionari to know about the local church and those partnerships.
Speaker A:So that's kind of going to be the questions I'm going to pepper at you.
Speaker A:So the first one I'm going to ask you is how do you see the local church and partnership when it comes to missions?
Speaker B:Yeah, I think that's probably the nature of the overall big question here.
Speaker B:Like I think if really probably that is this what this I Think what you're wanting to accomplish.
Speaker B:And everything we talk about from here, even the other ones are just nuances of what does it mean to be in partnership.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I think we're always guilty of being victims of the moment, but I think right now we're in a moment where partnership is been completely redefined for, at least for me, over the course of 20 years and is currently being redefined again right now.
Speaker B:And so I think that because I feel like I can speak a little bit out of both sides of my mouth.
Speaker B:I can speak as one who is the local church guy, but I can also speak as one who has worked, working on the, on the field, at least in a part time capacity.
Speaker B:So especially in the last three years, I've seen the other side of it as I'm engaging with, you know, partner, us partners, raising funds, keeping them updated, those kinds of things.
Speaker B:And so I would say this sort of maybe cataclysmic big statements, but I think our mission of partnership and AGWM is running out of steam.
Speaker B:Our tradition traditional model, every missionary and most likely all of you listening were learned at Mr.
Speaker B:Or whatever it was called PFO or HLX 17:9 or whatever it is y'all call it now was three things.
Speaker B:Pray, give, go.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And those are no longer valid in the local church partnership.
Speaker B:So let me explain what I mean by that.
Speaker B:I think that activities are not gone, but I think the messaging behind them has to shift the idea back in the day and probably the biblical New Testament model.
Speaker B:So when I say this, the New Testament model is that we are ascending organization.
Speaker B:We send people the local church sins.
Speaker B:And I think that's, that's good language.
Speaker B:However, I think the church today in America is no longer a sending agency.
Speaker B:We see ourselves as a withing agency as opposed to sending.
Speaker B:And what I mean by within is that we are going with people to the field.
Speaker B:We are no longer sending them.
Speaker B:And if you treat your supporters as senders and not people who are with you, you're going to miss a huge mate.
Speaker B:You're going to make a huge mistake.
Speaker B:We use that language here.
Speaker B:We don't say these are our representatives across the world.
Speaker B:They are us.
Speaker B:So when we picked up Aaron supporter when we made the announcement, because we did, yeah, we talked about a part of our church now serving in East Africa.
Speaker B:So you and all 200 plus workers around the world that work with us, they are not sent by us, they are us there.
Speaker B:And some of this is a reflection of the globalization.
Speaker B:Some of this is a Reflection of the shrinkingness of the world.
Speaker B:So within versus sending really needs.
Speaker B:And what does that mean to be with?
Speaker B:I think the second part of this is that pray, give, go.
Speaker B:If I was rewriting the big posters for general counsel right now, I might be inclined to change that language from pray, give, go to pray, give, live.
Speaker B:Because go doesn't mean go anymore.
Speaker B:So when I was in Bible School 150 years ago, go meant go was clearly defined.
Speaker B:Go was sell your home, sell your possessions, go itinerate, go live for three or four years, depending on what your assignment was, come back for a year.
Speaker B:Go was to be boots on the ground, inculcated into a community, pack your belongings in a casket and never look back.
Speaker B:And that word go no longer means that in the local church context.
Speaker B:Because my, my wife's grandparents were missionaries to China the 30s.
Speaker B:It took them 24 days to go from California to there.
Speaker B:Like they, they load up.
Speaker B:Took 24 days of journey.
Speaker B:Recently I needed to be in Africa in a short amount of time.
Speaker B:I can, I could buy a ticket this afternoon to go tonight and I could be in Central Africa in about 35 hours.
Speaker B:So completely different piece.
Speaker B:And going today has turned into short term missions approaches from, from churches.
Speaker B:And so I think when you guys say go, you mean come with me and live there.
Speaker B:And so that's why I still think the value is right.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so I think I would be communicating more about pray, go, pray, give and live as to just going.
Speaker B:And so that partnership, it also has to reflect partnership.
Speaker B:And so it can't be just a buzzword partnership.
Speaker B:If there's a partnership, it's a two way piece.
Speaker B:And so I say this carefully because I know a bunch of you guys listening, you, we support you and you're on, we're on our team.
Speaker B:But there are very few missionaries who are genuine partners with us.
Speaker B:When I say partnership means, partnership is I do things for you consistently and you consistently do things for me.
Speaker B:And I would say very few missionaries workers have the capacity, time or energy to actually do anything for me.
Speaker B:And I don't mean that insulting.
Speaker B:Does that make sense, Aaron?
Speaker A:No, it makes a ton of sense.
Speaker A:It's not insulting, it's just, it's just a reality of it.
Speaker B:Because if I, if we were in a business partnership, then there'd be a commodity that was exchanged for goods.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Or there was a collaboration on activities and events.
Speaker B:The majority of the time workers on the field are partnering, meaning I'm supporting.
Speaker B:So it's really in ways they treat me as investors, not partners.
Speaker B:And that's okay.
Speaker B:Like, I'm not again, like completely get it.
Speaker B:But if we're going to do partnership, we got to figure out ways to communicate together and differently.
Speaker B:So I know there's a track you're kind of working us through in this conversation, but I'll jump ahead a little bit and say like communicating.
Speaker B:Here's what I really appreciate when, when people come to speak for us or work in, interact with us, I really genuinely appreciate.
Speaker B:Pastor Rod appreciates this conversation.
Speaker B:What can I do to help you when I'm there?
Speaker B:So if I'm bringing you here, it's because I have an assignment for you.
Speaker B:I've got an outcome for you.
Speaker B:And you say, well no, I'm coming so that I can share my vision and dream of what I'm supposed to do so you can partner with me.
Speaker B:And I would say no partnership would be what are you trying to accomplish, Randy, with me coming and how can I be a part and change that?
Speaker B:How can I, how can I work on that?
Speaker B:That partnership language is key.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker B:Have you seen that yourself?
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker A:Oh, for sure, for sure.
Speaker A:And it's, it's, it and it's the idea of partnership.
Speaker A:It's not just a one way street anymore.
Speaker A:It's not to come that, you know, get part, get financial support was the word, you know, and then prayer support and then leave.
Speaker A:But it's a more of, as you said, they're living and they're part of the church, they're part of nlr.
Speaker A:And so it's a, it's a mutual.
Speaker B:Relationship and investing is not a problem.
Speaker B:Like there are like when I say we have support 200 people, it's like I do the same thing, tongue in cheek.
Speaker B:And I do it now with my people who I know, but they'll say, hey, I'm not, I'm not going to, I want to come have coffee.
Speaker B:I just want to have coffee with you.
Speaker B:I just, I'm just, I'm like, I, I don't, I want to build a relationship with you.
Speaker B:Well, we support 200 plus missionaries.
Speaker B:I don't need any more relationships.
Speaker B:Like I'm, I'm terrible at relationships anyway.
Speaker B:Just talk to my wife and daughters.
Speaker B:Like, I, I don't, I'm not going to ruin this one.
Speaker B:But there's nothing wrong with investing.
Speaker B:Yeah, but if you're going to use the poor partnership, then on some level, like any business deal, you need to find out what the expectations of the people you're partner Are and then somehow hammer out and craft what are realistic expectations for that partnership.
Speaker A:That's a good word, Randy, when it comes to.
Speaker A:You mentioned communicating.
Speaker A:So global worker missionaries on the field, what's the best way you're finding for them to communicate with, with the local church?
Speaker A:Is it through newsletters?
Speaker A:Is it through email or Facebook or WhatsApp?
Speaker A:Your perspective, what's the best way for, for people to communicate?
Speaker A:Because it is a responsibility to communicate back.
Speaker A:Not everyone.
Speaker A:Not once every four years, but in the meantime.
Speaker A:So what are you finding is the best ways for that?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:What a terrible situation you guys find yourself in.
Speaker B:So if you have 150 supporters, my guess is you have about 137 different primary means of communication.
Speaker B:Because every, because everybody's different.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I would say this is a general rule of some.
Speaker B:If I was in you guys spot, same kind of thing.
Speaker B:I think those are the kind of questions I would ask.
Speaker B:I love it when somebody emails me and says hey, thanks for picking us up.
Speaker B:What's the best way I can communicate with you?
Speaker B:Because I'm a little more.
Speaker B:I've done this for 20 years.
Speaker B:I've got some systems in place.
Speaker B:So I've built my systems.
Speaker B:So if I pick you up, you're getting a pretty standard email from me that communicates that.
Speaker B:But I'm assuming first assembly down the street doesn't have that.
Speaker B:Because they don't.
Speaker B:They haven't had a 20 year person creating systems.
Speaker B:I would say this.
Speaker B:Make sure that you as a missionary, don't force your supporters into your communication preference.
Speaker B:So let me, let me explain what I mean by that.
Speaker B:You can't force other people into your communication style, especially those of us who support a lot of people.
Speaker B:It's a little better now, but back when security was hitting and there was, you know, every day felt like there was another way of communicating.
Speaker B:I had Signal, WhatsApp, Facebook messenger.
Speaker B:I had every everything stuff that doesn't even exist anymore.
Speaker B:Like what?
Speaker B:And I would have to communicate with varying levels of people.
Speaker B:And then I'd get a message and say we're moving all our communication to mailchimp.
Speaker B:We're moving all our communication to Apostle or epistle or whatever it is.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I would say this, your ease of communication.
Speaker B:This could be harsh.
Speaker B:Everybody just buckle up.
Speaker B:Your ease of communication is completely irrelevant to my information needs.
Speaker B:So here's a great example.
Speaker B:I worked with a guy who was, was really struggling with connecting with some workers and they were back and forth.
Speaker B:Well, they had moved all of their communication to WhatsApp and they were sending WhatsApp messages.
Speaker B:Well, I'll just go ahead and tell you.
Speaker B:WhatsApp is not popular in the United States.
Speaker B:Every time I take a group of pastors or leaders into Africa and I say all right guys, you're gonna have to download the WhatsApp app.
Speaker B:They have no idea what I'm talking about.
Speaker B:And so, so if you're rely I know it's the best communication form for you guys but it's probably not going to connect right now for another couple years in the States and you got to figure it out.
Speaker B:So like pretty typically if got people will contact me.
Speaker B:I remember this great worker sent me a flood of messages on Facebook Messenger.
Speaker B:You know what, I just, I'm an old man.
Speaker B:I don't look at Facebook Messenger.
Speaker B:I missed important information.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because I have a system.
Speaker B:So I think some of that.
Speaker B:You got to figure that out.
Speaker B:I am again I'm an old guy so I still think hard copy newsletters are the best but I would never do either or I would always do both hand I think just a little.
Speaker B:I'll share this as an aside I can't prove it.
Speaker B:The anecdotally two or three times in been with a lot with a group of missions minded pastors and we're talking about this.
Speaker B:The least effective way to communicate is a Facebook group.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker B:And because we are all members of hundreds of them.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then secondly if you have a Facebook group that's great but never ever, ever tag at everyone which is very.
Speaker B:There's a, there's a guy, a missionary.
Speaker B:I have now removed myself twice from his group because every time he posts he puts at everyone in there you say well, well that, that's how I can make sure he's alerted.
Speaker B:Well if everyone taps at everyone then what's happened is you're resounding gong somewhere that no one's listening to.
Speaker B:Those of you in a Muslim context, this is what happens at noonday prayers.
Speaker B:You just tune it out because you hear it every day.
Speaker A:That's a good word.
Speaker A:Good word, good word and great insight, Randy.
Speaker A:So next question I want to ask you is oftentimes global workers and missionaries, they're going to maybe visit a church, they're with a pastor.
Speaker A:What are some good questions that, that the missionary can ask or the global worker can ask about the church and about the, the pastor.
Speaker A:So it doesn't just become a transactional relationship.
Speaker A:Any and any good starter questions.
Speaker A:Yeah, just some thoughts on this.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think the, the what do you want Me to accomplish what's, what's a kingdom win for you here and always tunnel down that.
Speaker B:Because the first answer I was going to be, man, do whatever you want to do, man love you, whatever.
Speaker B:But there's always, always something behind it.
Speaker B:Now I'm switching my role a little bit.
Speaker B:I'm doing more speaking for churches to, for the Rwanda project.
Speaker B:And so doing a couple of those things.
Speaker B:And so really good example.
Speaker B:This just happened to me.
Speaker B:I went and spoke at a church.
Speaker B:I'd never been there before.
Speaker B:The pastor asked me to come.
Speaker B:I was speaking in their missions convention and I, I, he said, hey, I love what you're doing in Rwanda.
Speaker B:He knew a little bit of my Sudan story.
Speaker B:He's like, can you tell some Sudan story stuff?
Speaker B:So I start talking to him.
Speaker B:We have an ongoing conversation for about a month ahead of time.
Speaker B:I watched the first three or the, I watched three messages in a row before I went.
Speaker B:Now I understand I'm only preaching every now and then, but I looked at their website, I found out what they were doing.
Speaker B:I wrote core values from their website into my message, put all that stuff in there.
Speaker B:And then I was like, so how, you know, the week before, I'm like, can just one more time, can we just double check?
Speaker B:And then I find out I only have 25 minutes.
Speaker B:So I can't tell an hour Sudan story and a 45 minute Rwanda Project story.
Speaker B:I've got 25 minutes.
Speaker B:And then he says, we're not going to raise any money for project.
Speaker B:What I need you to do is can you help me raise my missions pledges?
Speaker B:Well, it took three conversations with him to get to that point.
Speaker B:And so I changed my message.
Speaker B:I, when I say that I told some of the same stories, but I shifted it to accomplish what he wanted to accomplish and then led to how do we land monthly supports?
Speaker B:And so then even the night before at dinner, I was like, okay, here's what I'm doing tomorrow.
Speaker B:How does this match?
Speaker B:And he said, you know what?
Speaker B:You could really help me if you would do this.
Speaker B:And so those conversations are super helpful.
Speaker B:Jay Dickerson Former missionary Central America Area Director for years Jay I guess it would have been about 11 years ago, we were in Central America doing something somewhere and he said to me one day, before you leave, how can I pray for you?
Speaker B:And it was the way he said it versus what he said that proved to me it wasn't transactional, it was something genuine.
Speaker B:And then pretty consistently over the course of my time with him and just friendship, I get I would get the.
Speaker B:You're on my mind today.
Speaker B:How can I pray with you and your wife today?
Speaker B:So those kinds of things, I think those are important.
Speaker B:I'm sure most of the missionaries on here know that you basically become pastor therapists while you're traveling.
Speaker B:I mean like it's, it's the unwritten rule of missions itineration is that at some point you're going to have coffee with somebody saying here's everything that's going on and you're providing you're the shoulder to cry on and the counselor.
Speaker B:So I think lean into those things and let the Lord use you and lead you in those moments.
Speaker B:But how can I help you and what can I do to help you move your thing forward, I think are big, big parts of it.
Speaker A:No, I appreciate that and those are insightful and those are questions we can all ask and be there and you know, it is an opportunity.
Speaker A:I, I've been someone, I've always enjoyed itinerating.
Speaker A:It's never been a painful thing and I've enjoyed it.
Speaker A:And you get to meet some genuine people and you get to have great conversations and if you can have an opportunity to listen and care at those times, yeah, I think it's a great.
Speaker A:So thanks for helping us give those starter questions and make this more of a relationship and not just a transaction.
Speaker A:And Randy, another question I got for you.
Speaker A:So maybe what are some of the current challenges that you see in the American church that a missionary might be missing or global worker might be missing and if they've been gone for a while, they might have really missed it.
Speaker A:And how do those challenges that you're seeing, how does that impact current missions engagement?
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm reminded of missions event I went to a couple years ago.
Speaker B:I can't remember what it was.
Speaker B:It's probably five or six years ago.
Speaker B:Actually longer than that.
Speaker B: years, but it was: Speaker B:Lots of missionaries there, lots of missions minded pastors.
Speaker B:And I was sitting at dinner with a couple of your colleagues and others and listening to them complain in a good way.
Speaker B:Like they're struggling to connect.
Speaker B:Just like we can't find churches who are, who get our UPG work.
Speaker B:We can't get people, we can't get people who understand stuff.
Speaker B:Like we spend so much time.
Speaker B:It was a venting session and it was a little bit of me doing and me and two other guys doing therapy for him.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But was really, but it wasn't terrible.
Speaker B:And then the next morning I went to breakfast with about 10 pastors and they were sharing how frustrated they were that they can't find missionaries who are willing to do what they needed to do and understood their context.
Speaker B:And like.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:And I remember sitting there, it took me because it was the morning and I had a whole lot of coffee, yet I was about a third of the way through it.
Speaker B:I'm like, I wish I could have got last night's group and today's group together.
Speaker B:And then I realized they had been together because they were at the same event.
Speaker B:And so I would say this.
Speaker B:Understanding our context and culture.
Speaker B:The easy answer is Covid is the everyday.
Speaker B:But at this point we're five years, four, three or four years out from it.
Speaker B:I'll say for us at first assembly, just to give people on the field context, this is the.
Speaker B:The last two months is the first time since COVID that our church is back to attendance numbers that average pre covered.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker B:It took five years for us to get here.
Speaker B:And a huge.
Speaker B:And this is at all our campuses, seven or eight campuses we interact with pretty consistently that way.
Speaker B:There's always, you know, exceptions one way or the other.
Speaker B:Almost all of Us have experienced 30 to 40% of turnover.
Speaker B:We at First assembly are actually a little higher.
Speaker B:So you got to think in terms of our pastors right now across the board are pastoring new churches.
Speaker B:So even though we have a great history of missions, at first assembly north of Rock, I mean, we had Alton Garrison, we had H.
Speaker B:Morris lednecky, we are leading church and missions in Arkansas, in the United States, yada, yada, yada.
Speaker B:We have half of our church who have no idea and could care less about that heritage.
Speaker B:We are starting over from scratch on missiology.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think what.
Speaker B:In summary, I think understanding that we're pastoring new churches is.
Speaker B:Is important for us.
Speaker B:Secondly, we are.
Speaker B:We are pastoring diversity in our communities like never before.
Speaker B: Arkansas and I would say pre: Speaker B:Our community and our state was pretty homogeneous.
Speaker B:It was white and black with a mixture of some Hispanic.
Speaker B:Now that that designation doesn't work even in Arkansas.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:And not only that, but we are blending in church like never before.
Speaker B:Thanks be unto God.
Speaker B:Yeah, but this is to me, one of the real opportunities for missionaries is again, I'll tell a story that was beneficial.
Speaker B:Again, I don't mean it.
Speaker B:And it could be viewed as negative.
Speaker B:And I don't.
Speaker B:But we.
Speaker B:My daughter went to elementary school she went to a Turkish charter school, which they're really popular here in the US now.
Speaker B:A lot of it was big deal coming over.
Speaker B:It was great school.
Speaker B:And so we, we tried to do what we learned.
Speaker B:And so we were having Turkish people over to our house.
Speaker B:We were eating, we were, you know, doing Ramadan with them and breaking fat.
Speaker B:All this stuff, we're just trying to do it.
Speaker B:And I reached out to several workers for advice and, and actually asked them to come say, hey, can you come to North Little Rock?
Speaker B:I don't need you to raise any money.
Speaker B:I don't need you to.
Speaker B:I don't, I need, we need your help.
Speaker B:And it was difficult to get someone to come.
Speaker B:And ultimately, I mean we, it worked out.
Speaker B:And so I'm about to get an email from everybody listening saying, I'll come, but it's dangerous when you're saying, but you know what, like there was a few years ago and people weren't thinking that way.
Speaker B:But there's probably some gifted work missionaries out here who would find ways to, to meet the need in some multi ethnic communities.
Speaker B:So like if I knew that if I had worked with Somalis for years, I would be reaching out to churches in the Minneapolis era area and saying, hey, you know, I've done this forever.
Speaker B:I'm not asking for anything, but if you need some help at some point, point I speak language, I, I know culture and I'm happy to help you reach your communities.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so how can I help you accomplish stuff would be super helpful.
Speaker B:I think the other challenge is we're feeling immense pressure from our people who have family there.
Speaker B:It's directly related that, who have family members and friends internationally who are not part of AGWM more than ever before.
Speaker B:So I am pretty consistently now in our multi ethnic multinational church, introduced to my cousin or my uncle or my brother or my home church back in my country.
Speaker B:And how do you help them?
Speaker B:How can we help them?
Speaker B:And those are real pastoral challenges.
Speaker B:I understand the missiology.
Speaker B:I understand you got, we can't work around agwm.
Speaker B:I get all that stuff.
Speaker B:But, but those are your issues.
Speaker B:Minor pastoral.
Speaker B:How do I look at that lady in my church who faithfully ties and gives the missions and say, I'm sorry I can't support your, your brother who pastors a church, maybe even an assembly of God church in Ghana, because we direct, we work directly with the mission and then I have to explain to her why it's bad missiology to partner with her family.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's, that's A tough question.
Speaker A:I'm sure it is.
Speaker B:Like, like it.
Speaker B:So like those kinds of things, those are some pressures and challenges.
Speaker B:The other challenge you got to remember is that everything we say right now is fact checked.
Speaker B:So fake news is a part of life.
Speaker B:So everybody fact checks.
Speaker B:So what I mean by that is if you as a missionary and me get up and say there are no churches in this community or there are no missionaries working in this place, we have to.
Speaker B:And there are, then we're liars.
Speaker B:And people come up afterwards and tell us.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker B:And so we, we, we've got, we've had some workers who've gotten burned by that, who get up and say, I'm going to a place where there are no workers or no missionaries.
Speaker B:And then somebody sitting out in the audience is googling and lo and behold, there are Baptist workers or there are whatever.
Speaker B:And I know what they meant.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:But it hurts the integrity of it.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:For sure.
Speaker A:Randy, when you have somebody that comes and visits and they have the opportunity to speak in front of a group of people, what are some things that you would ask them to avoid talking about?
Speaker A:I remember you talking about one one of them.
Speaker A:You'll probably mention it, but I really found this valuable just coming back to the US and things that I would have missed.
Speaker A:So what are some things to avoid talking about from when you're giving a message or have the opportunity to share for a window.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I delicately here I look at everything as what is your.
Speaker B:I've been taught that what is your assignment?
Speaker B:So that is the number one thing to consider when you're speaking or interacting.
Speaker B:What is your assignment?
Speaker B:And fulfill the assignment.
Speaker B:So I say carefully, I would think very rarely is your assignment to speak prophetically to the American church.
Speaker B:Now it's possible.
Speaker B:And it, I think some of you have that in that gift mix, whatever.
Speaker B:But I think you gotta like you're not missionaries.
Speaker B:Don't have the relational equity to stand and correct the American church.
Speaker B:And so doing it from the pulpit, absent relationship and absent context, you better have had a bush catch on fire.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker B:And I say that respectfully, just like I would not get up and stand up at, you know, if, if ever I had the opportunity to speak at missionary renewal or something like that to all of our to come to together 20,010 or whatever it is.
Speaker B:I would never get up and say, here's what's wrong with you.
Speaker B:You need to make those changes.
Speaker B:It wouldn't be my assignment.
Speaker B:And so first of all, I'd say always stay on assignment.
Speaker B:I Mean, I'm Pentecostal, I'm spirit filled.
Speaker B:The word the Lord gives me words.
Speaker B:That's not what I'm talking about.
Speaker B:I think secondly, clearly it's no joke at this point.
Speaker B:If you're preaching politics or political parties or world events, you're, you're foolish because the American church has never been more politically divided.
Speaker B:And you say, wait a minute.
Speaker B:Everybody I know in my church is like this.
Speaker B:And I know you're, I'm guessing, Aaron, you're in West Virginia where everybody is exactly the same right now.
Speaker B:But you know, I, I, we pastor a multi ethnic church and we, we're midst of massive tension right now.
Speaker B:Massive tension and jokes about politics do not go over well in our context.
Speaker B:And I've watched speakers bomb for the first 10 minutes because they assume their crowd, when their crowd was not who they assumed it would be.
Speaker B:I think that I would avoid.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker B:Would avoid minimizing or berating the American church.
Speaker B:I remember a great missionary, another good friend of ours, wonderful guy, got up and he was talking on prayer and he said these words.
Speaker B:Now the church where I'm at, he named the region.
Speaker B:They are better at prayer than you are.
Speaker B:And they understand prayer better than the Amer, than Americans do.
Speaker B:Well, I actually agree with what he said.
Speaker B:Like I know what he means.
Speaker B:But it, it, it hurt him.
Speaker B:Like people were, they were like, well, what was wrong with us?
Speaker B:Well, I think going negative is never, never, never the, the way to do it.
Speaker B:I think the other thing I would say is resist the temptation to qualify lostness.
Speaker B:So let me explain what I mean by that.
Speaker B:I would never qualify layers of lostness.
Speaker B:Now I, I, I was our church myself was a part of the original Live Dead team.
Speaker B:However many years ago it was I, missionary God Hansen, Greg Beggs, Dick Brogdon.
Speaker B:They taught me about injustice of unreached people groups.
Speaker B:But if we're not careful, the place we love and the lost people we love the most become the most important lost people in the world.
Speaker B:And then we minimize the lostness of others.
Speaker B:Because I'll tell you that in my church we have people who are dying and going to hell in our community and they are just as lost and hell is just as hot for them as people in unreached people group areas.
Speaker B:Now I'm in agreement on the, on, on the injustice.
Speaker B:I think we are way too focused on reached parts of the world.
Speaker B:We need to go to the unreached parts world.
Speaker B:I'm, I'm not minimizing that.
Speaker B:But in your language, don't don't inv.
Speaker B:Don't create standards or grades of lostness.
Speaker B:Lost people are lost people.
Speaker B:Hellbound people are still going to hell.
Speaker B:And I would just be real cautious about making the place that I am called and the place that I love to be the most important place or the only place in the world.
Speaker C:Good work.
Speaker A:Randy, I got one more question for you and I wanted to ask you just about when it comes to the next generation of missions, are there any trends that you're seeing?
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:In fact, I would say this.
Speaker B:We.
Speaker B:We kind of got ahead on this early.
Speaker B:And I think that at least talking with a bunch of pastors that's doing the same thing, just know if you ever come to first assembly and speak, the odds are you're not going to hang out with our lead team.
Speaker B:You're going to also almost always be speaking to students and young adults, meals, those kinds of things.
Speaker B:Unless we're doing business.
Speaker B:You're almost always with somebody who's a teenager or in their early 20s who feels called to missions.
Speaker B:And so there's definitely that.
Speaker B:Secondly, the US Economy, even though it's going through some troubles right now, but the US Economy, the ease of travel and globalization has made it where the majority of my high school students and young adults who have a desire to travel already have.
Speaker B:And secondly, they are already friends with people in places they feel like God has called them to do.
Speaker B:So this is an important thing in that when you.
Speaker B:They know people in their context through the Internet and through Tick Tock and Snapchat and all that stuff they do.
Speaker B:My daughter is a freshman evangelist.
Speaker B:She's got international friends all over the world that they interact with.
Speaker B:And that's awesome.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:But what we've.
Speaker B:I think the trend would be that young, this next generation is more internationally aware and internationally connected than anybody else in future generations.
Speaker B:That said, they're also not ready yet to share the gospel in those places.
Speaker B:They still need that training.
Speaker B:They still need those areas.
Speaker B:I think it's also important if I was hosting, I'm going to speak more to the leadership side here and you as a former area director and what you're doing now, come speak to this.
Speaker B:I think it's important for the older workers who are listening to this, you need to remember that the knowledge base of young workers coming to the field is completely different than the knowledge base that you had when you came US The United States is now in an automated system.
Speaker B:So I am of a generation that I don't know how to do anything other than take Broken things to shops to get fixed.
Speaker B:So if I had to fix my vehicle, couldn't do it.
Speaker B:If I had to change my oil, can't do it.
Speaker B:I know it's crazy.
Speaker B:It's crazy to some people.
Speaker B:And it's not because I'm lazy.
Speaker B:It's just because for my whole life.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:That autumn automation was there.
Speaker B:Cooking, how to cook, like those things, just normal life skills.
Speaker B:Those are you.
Speaker B:In the US we pay people to do those things now.
Speaker B:And as a result, when we land in a context that is more, that is more third world, then there is a steep learning curve on how to do and live life.
Speaker B:And it's not because they're lazy, it's just because they've never learned.
Speaker B:So that's, I think that's going to be a hurdle for some, some multi generational teams to work through.
Speaker B:I don't know if you've seen it that at all.
Speaker A:Oh, for sure.
Speaker A:And, and I've not only seen it, but been part of it.
Speaker A:So there's, there's a lot of things that, between the generation that's a little older than me that things that they knew how to do that I didn't know how to do do.
Speaker A:And it's, it's shifting and so it's definitely a shift.
Speaker A:Randy, it's been awesome to have and learn from you today.
Speaker A:Will you pray for us that God will use this conversation to encourage those who listen in?
Speaker B:Absolutely, Lord, thanks for good friends all over the world.
Speaker B:People who heard your voice were listening when other people weren't and then responded when other people wouldn't respond.
Speaker B:Thank you for people who sacrificed when other people wouldn't sacrifice and people who said yes when the resounding no came from everyone around them.
Speaker B:Lord, I pray that as they move forward in this new season of their life that they would experience grace and peace.
Speaker B:I pray for words of wisdom, words of knowledge as they work with both the lost people that you've called them to and also all of us pastors and churches and supporters back at home.
Speaker B:Lord, I pray that you would give them a sense of direction, Lord, as they challenge people to pray, as they challenge people to give, and even as they've challenged people to live on the field, to serve.
Speaker B:But Lord, I pray you would show them ways to be a withing church and a withing missionary.
Speaker B:Bless them, be with their families, be with their kids, be with their spouses.
Speaker B:I pray if anything, that their marriages are stronger, their families are more secure, and I pray all of us would be better followers of you tomorrow than we are today.
Speaker B:In Jesus name, amen.
Speaker C:Amen.
