Pastor Chad Harvey on Spiritual Leadership, Resiliency, and the Call to Ministry / Back Channel with Foth
Pastor Chad Harvey joins us on the podcast today to discuss Spiritual Leadership.
Takeaways:
- In this episode on Back Channel with Foth, we look into the critical distinction between confidentiality and secrecy, exploring their implications in interpersonal relationships.
- Pastor Chad Harvey emphasizes the importance of internal and external affirmations of one's calling in ministry and how these shape our spiritual journeys.
- The conversation highlights the significance of resilience in ministry, particularly the necessity of remaining faithful amidst challenges and discouragement.
- We discuss the vital role of humility for spiritual leaders, noting how pride can impede effective leadership and spiritual growth.
- Pastor Chad encourages listeners to maintain an eternal perspective, reminding us that our earthly lives are but fleeting moments compared to eternity.
- The episode concludes with a powerful reminder that true spiritual leadership requires a commitment to please God above all else, fostering resilience and purpose in ministry.
Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker B:Welcome back to the Clarity podcast.
Speaker B:So excited to be back with our friend Dick Foth for another session of Back Channel with foe.
Speaker B:Jump into our interview with Pastor Chad Harvey.
Speaker B:Dick, welcome back to the podcast.
Speaker C:Thank you so much.
Speaker C:Always a joy.
Speaker C:Here we are.
Speaker B:We are.
Speaker B:Here we are.
Speaker C:But you're a nurse.
Speaker C:You can help.
Speaker B:Yeah, I can for sure.
Speaker B:Especially rashes.
Speaker B:That's my.
Speaker B:That's my special rashes.
Speaker C:So stay away from rashes.
Speaker C:I don't want that.
Speaker B:Two questions I got for you, Dick.
Speaker B:First one is, how do you differentiate.
Speaker B:Differentiate between keeping secrets from confidentiality?
Speaker C:You know, I saw that question.
Speaker C:I thought I might need a little more context to fully understand that.
Speaker C:But in some cases, a secret and something confidential is in fact a synonym, meaning the same thing we always used to say in Washington, D.C.
Speaker C:you know, if you want to keep a secret, don't even tell yourself.
Speaker C:You know, that's a.
Speaker C:But I think it's interesting because for the 15 years that we were in Washington, D.C.
Speaker C:working with leaders behind the scenes and essentially coming alongside them to be friends, to encourage them either in the faith they had or toward a faith that they might want to discover.
Speaker C:Some folks would say, well, what.
Speaker C:What you're doing is like sort of a secret society.
Speaker C:They would say, no, what we're doing is like family.
Speaker C:And there are things that you speak in your family about and things you share that are not for general observation and.
Speaker C:And certainly not for social media or for broadcast media, that sort of thing.
Speaker C:And we would make the distinction between secret and private, which is a little different way of saying secret, confidential.
Speaker C:And we had to keep working on that.
Speaker C:I find it interesting because we come to the end of Jesus earthly life, and he's giving what I call his farewell address over dinner the night before the crucifixion.
Speaker C:This is what he says in John.
Speaker C:My command is this.
Speaker C:Love each other.
Speaker C:Love each other as I've loved you.
Speaker C:Greater love is no one than this to lay down one's life for one's friends.
Speaker C:And that's a thought all of its own.
Speaker C:You are my friends if you do what I command.
Speaker C:That's also a thought all of itself.
Speaker C:I no longer call you servants because a servant does not know his master's business.
Speaker C:So getting closer to the inside scoop, if you will, both paraphrase.
Speaker C:Instead, I've called you friends for everything that I learned from my father, I've made known to you.
Speaker C:That's a mouthful.
Speaker C:That's a big statement.
Speaker C:And the point of Jesus coming was to reveal what, prior to that time had been total mystery.
Speaker C:And so all of those things sort of intersect when you get into the conversation about secret and confidential and private and personal.
Speaker B:Yeah, good word, Good word.
Speaker B:And it's, it's something we bump up against and love how you bring scripture into that.
Speaker B:And it does help guide God, guide us.
Speaker B:So, Dick, the, the other, the person that sent in that, that question also sent in the question.
Speaker B:What are some ways you have learned to politely say, I cannot talk about that, it's confidential, or you talked about, they maybe could put private in there because that's, that's the, the word you used that would kind of be synonymous with, with that.
Speaker B:So what are some ways you learned to politely say, I cannot talk about that, it is confidential?
Speaker C:I think when you say, I can't talk about that, it is confidential, that feels pretty polite to me as opposed to me saying, I'm sorry, but you don't have clearance for this or that's above your pay grade, dude.
Speaker C:But I think, I think some, sometimes to be able to say what is true, you know, when I had the conversation, I made a promise that it would stay between us.
Speaker C:And so, and I, and I know you understand that, you know, that that way of saying things, or I can't really speak to that while the process is still in play here or while we're still in process and that, you know, I think sometimes one doesn't have to slam a door as opposed to gently leading somebody toward another door just by saying, you know, I, if I haven't said, I promised I'd be happy to share, but.
Speaker C:But I did, you know, that sort of thing.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's good.
Speaker B:You know, learning.
Speaker B:As I was preparing, putting these, all these questions together as people sent them in, I thought, you know, information, information givers, people use information as power, right?
Speaker B:Some people use information they like to.
Speaker B:Is power, and some people hold it because power.
Speaker B:And so it's, it could be, it can be a tenuous thing to, to walk in that.
Speaker C:Well, information used as power is what the Bible calls gossip.
Speaker B:Yeah, good word, good word.
Speaker B:Well, we're going to go ahead, Dick, and jump into our session of our interview with Pastor Chad Harvey.
Speaker B:Thank you once again for being on Back channel with Foe.
Speaker B:Well, there's no time better than now to get started, so here we go.
Speaker B:Greetings and welcome back to the Clarity podcast.
Speaker B:So excited to be here today with a new friend of the podcast, Pastor Chad Harvey.
Speaker B:Chad, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker A:Aaron.
Speaker A:It's fantastic to be with you, brother.
Speaker B:Looking forward to our conversation Today, Chad, for those who have never been to Cross assembly, maybe they've never been to Raleigh, North Carolina.
Speaker B:Never had good berries.
Speaker B:Could you share a little about yourself before we jump into some of the questions I have for you today?
Speaker A:Yeah, Aaron, I grew up here in North Carolina in a good, solid Southern Baptist family.
Speaker A:My parents still go to a strong, independent, King James Only Baptist church.
Speaker A:And so when, as a Southern Baptist pastor, had an encounter of the Holy Spirit, kind of shook everybody up a little bit, what kind of weird cult was my son joining?
Speaker A:But about 20 years ago, yeah, after this encounter with the Holy Spirit, my deacons found out that I speak in tongues.
Speaker A:And they were so nice, they invited me to go pastor somewhere else.
Speaker A:And so I ended up here at Raleigh, North Carolina, at it started out at the first assembly of God.
Speaker A:Raleigh.
Speaker A:We've changed the name to Cross assembly, but been here about 20 years.
Speaker B:Pastor Chad, call into ministry.
Speaker B:So you said you grew up in a Baptist church filled with the baptism, Holy Spirit.
Speaker B:When were you called into ministry and how's that journey been?
Speaker A:Yeah, Aaron, I've actually, I'm one of these guys that has always, since that call, you know, as.
Speaker A:Even as a child, I just sense that God is calling me into.
Speaker A:Into ministry.
Speaker A:My heroes weren't sports stars or celebrities.
Speaker A:They were pastors.
Speaker A:And so, yeah, I just, I didn't really have a lot to wrestle with since God was calling me.
Speaker A:And I ran from it for a couple years, came back to the calling.
Speaker A:But, yeah, for me, it was always just internal, intrinsic.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:And so called into ministry.
Speaker B:One of the things I value, many things, Pastor Chad, is that you encourage other people to at least be willing to hear if God has a calling on their life.
Speaker B:Can you share how you're doing in the current generation?
Speaker B:I mean, in the ministry, it's tough.
Speaker B:So there's not a whole long line of people signing up for it.
Speaker B:It's tough.
Speaker B:But you consistently encourage people to be open to God's calling on their life.
Speaker B:Can you share about that and your passion for.
Speaker A:Yeah, Aaron, I actually think that there are several affirmations of the call.
Speaker A:It has to start internally.
Speaker A:Have you sensed this call personally from the Lord?
Speaker A:And that seems like obvious 101 stuff, but it's interesting.
Speaker A:The seminary I went to, Great Southern Baptist Seminary.
Speaker A:Love it.
Speaker A:Every year they would have an evangelism emphasis.
Speaker A:And I finally asked one of the leaders, I said, look, this is a seminary full of men studying for ministry.
Speaker A:Why do you have an evangelistic thing every year?
Speaker A:And they said, jad Mark, My words, every year somebody studying for ministry will get saved.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:And when they talk to him afterward and kind of do the postmortem, like, man, I'm glad, you know, ministerial student, you got born again.
Speaker A:I've said before, best kind of pastor is a born again pastor.
Speaker A:But what were you doing here?
Speaker A:And it was interesting they would say something like this.
Speaker A:I was never called.
Speaker A:My grandma on her deathbed brought me to her deathbed and said, hey, I want you to go into ministry.
Speaker A:Your cousins are reprobates.
Speaker A:You're our only hope.
Speaker A:Grandma called, mom and dad called, but they never sense that internal call themselves.
Speaker A:So, Aaron, obviously that's where it starts.
Speaker A:You have to be called.
Speaker A:It's not that Grandma called you or mom and dad called you.
Speaker A:So you have that internal affirmation.
Speaker A:And then I think it's important for us to have that external affirmation.
Speaker A:I do think the Holy Spirit speaks through the body of Christ.
Speaker A:And so once I have this internal sense of calling, has that calling been affirmed by other godly brothers and sisters?
Speaker A:The longer I live, the more I appreciate the collective body of Christ and letting the spirit of God speak to that collective body.
Speaker A:So is there internal call there?
Speaker A:Have I been called?
Speaker A:Not Grandma called me.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I sense the call of God.
Speaker A:Secondly, has that been validated by brothers and sisters, the community of believers, the body of Christ, and then number three, the product, affirmation.
Speaker A:If you say I'm called to be an evangelist, but you have never led somebody to Jesus, you may not be called to be an evangelist.
Speaker A:And then another affirmation is the longitudinal calling.
Speaker A:Has this calling grown?
Speaker A:Has this sense of calling grown the longer I have wrestled with it?
Speaker A:In other words, if somebody says to me, today, I'm starting seminary tomorrow, because yesterday I got the call of God on my life, I would say there needs to be some longitudinal progress here.
Speaker A:And then finally, resilience.
Speaker A:I've come to the point where if the call of God is on a man or woman's life, there will be attacks, there will be obstacles.
Speaker A:And so that that resilience, affirmation.
Speaker A:Have I stuck with the calling despite these obstacles?
Speaker A:So for me, that's internal.
Speaker A:Have I heard from the Lord?
Speaker A:External?
Speaker A:Has.
Speaker A:Has the body affirmed that product?
Speaker A:Is there some product in my life that affirms that there is that calling longitudinal?
Speaker A:Is this a dream I had last night?
Speaker A:Or have you wrestled with this long term?
Speaker A:And then resilience, have you stuck with that calling despite obstacles?
Speaker B:Good word, Pastor Chad.
Speaker B:So were there people that spoke into your Life.
Speaker B:You said that external affirmation, the Holy Spirit spoke.
Speaker B:But were there people in your life that encouraged you to follow the call that.
Speaker B:That you had sensed from the Lord?
Speaker B:And then how do.
Speaker B:What are some things you've learned in encouraging others so that it doesn't become.
Speaker B:I'm trying to encourage somebody, but it comes, you know, my aunt on her deathbed, and she thought she maybe she was encouraging, but pushed you into something that you really weren't feel called to.
Speaker B:Is that a fair question?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:That's good.
Speaker A:And again, so look, on the Myers Briggs thing, I'm as far on the introvert scale as you can get.
Speaker A:Now, I think.
Speaker A:I think I read you correctly.
Speaker A:You're the opposite.
Speaker A:You're an extrovert, right?
Speaker B:A little bit, yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So sometimes I have cut myself off from people unintentionally that could.
Speaker A:That could speak into my life.
Speaker A:When I was younger, I was very careful about the men and women of God who did speak into me.
Speaker A:And so to answer your question, were there pastors.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Were there godly men and women who spoke in my life?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:I've had to, through the years, open myself up more and more to allowing godly people to speak into my life.
Speaker A:And I would say this.
Speaker A:You got to be very careful who you allow to speak into your life.
Speaker A:There's a lot of people that will throw around thus saith the Lord or will throw prophetic words at you.
Speaker A:I don't let just anybody come and speak prophetic words, words into me.
Speaker A:It's got to be somebody.
Speaker A:Know those who labor among you.
Speaker A:So there were some people who.
Speaker A:Who spoke into my life.
Speaker A:The second part of your question.
Speaker A:I can't remember the second part.
Speaker B:Aaron, how do you speak in.
Speaker B:So people spoke into your life?
Speaker B:So as a pastor leader wanting to see people follow that call, are there some things that you do when you speak into their life or some things you.
Speaker B:So it doesn't become, hey, Pastor Chad's pushing me into.
Speaker B:I know you're not doing that, but it's just that you're pushing.
Speaker B:It's what Pastor Chad wants.
Speaker B:It's not what I want.
Speaker B:Anything.
Speaker B:How.
Speaker B:Any wisdom for people?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, I do think sometimes we forget.
Speaker A:Your audience, I know, are missionaries and pastors.
Speaker A:Aaron.
Speaker A:I think we forget with these titles that we have or these roles that we have, we forget how the average.
Speaker A:I hate to use the term layperson, but you know what I mean.
Speaker A:The average layperson looks at minister, missionaries and pastors if we're not careful.
Speaker A:An Offhanded conversation or an offhanded comment that we say to somebody can totally change the trajectory of their life.
Speaker A:And so I'm reading a book now by Watchman Knee.
Speaker A:It's called Spiritual Authority.
Speaker A:You're familiar with Watchman Knee?
Speaker B:Yeah, I've not read the book.
Speaker A:Knee over and over and over again, talks about those of us, and this includes your audience, who are in positions of delegated authority.
Speaker A:We've got to be very, very careful with the words we use in the words we speak.
Speaker A:And so, as somebody who understands delegated authority and the power of my words, I need to be very, very careful.
Speaker A:That, number one, I have heard from the Lord that man, I sense there is a call in this person's life.
Speaker A:And then, number two, the way I say that needs to be something other than thus saith the Lord, the God of hosts, which Wayne Grudem, great book on the word, on the gift of prophecy.
Speaker A:He says, in the New Testament Church, you don't really see them throwing around, thus saith the Lord, the God of hosts.
Speaker A:So what I'll say to somebody is, look, I know I'm a pastor.
Speaker A:I know I have influence.
Speaker A:Been praying for you.
Speaker A:I could be wrong, but here's where I sense the Holy Spirit is leading you, man.
Speaker A:Take test away this thing.
Speaker A:See if this is of God.
Speaker A:Does that make sense?
Speaker B:It does.
Speaker B:And it's the humbleness.
Speaker B:You know, I grew up in an AG church and people would throw.
Speaker B:The Lord told me around a lot, you know, I mean, and so you.
Speaker B:I appreciate the humility in which you do that.
Speaker B:You leave an open door for them to feel that for the Holy Spirit to speak to them specifically.
Speaker B:And I love what you said about our titles.
Speaker B:I think sometimes we don't recognize how people perceive us.
Speaker B:And you talked about being a pastor or being a missionary, and sometimes that can come off in a certain way.
Speaker B:Actually, before we hit record, we were talking a little bit about.
Speaker B:I asked if I could call you Chad or call you Pastor Chad.
Speaker B:And you said you're not in for titles.
Speaker B:And you said that Jesus actually gives a teaching.
Speaker B:Could you share just a little bit about that?
Speaker A:Yeah, it is kind of interesting.
Speaker A:And look, if you're into throwing Dr.
Speaker A:This around and master this around or whatever, whatever your degree level is, go ahead and do it.
Speaker A:I'm bachelor, so and so.
Speaker A:But, you know, Jesus actually does have a teaching.
Speaker A:It's amazing what we find when we actually open up the Bible and read it.
Speaker A:He does have a teaching where he says to his disciples, don't Let them call you Rabbi.
Speaker A:Don't let them call you teacher.
Speaker A:Don't let them call you Father.
Speaker A:And I think what he's saying is we need to be very careful about.
Speaker A:About titles.
Speaker A:I think that with titles can come a sense of arrogance or superiority.
Speaker A:Again, Jesus is just very careful about us using titles.
Speaker A:And in fact, I have a guy on staff, great guy.
Speaker A:He said when he was young, he said he went to alto, the leader's name, but went to a prominent Christian leader and said, man, he said.
Speaker A:He said, pray for me.
Speaker A:He said, how can I pray for you?
Speaker A:And he said, well, I want to have a TV ministry one day.
Speaker A:I want to write books one day.
Speaker A:I want to go on the speaking circuit one day.
Speaker A:Maybe the president of a Christian college one day.
Speaker A:He's 22 years old, throwing all these things out.
Speaker A:And the guy just kind of listened to him and nodded his head.
Speaker A:And when he was through, he said, you know what I think your problem is?
Speaker A:And he said, what?
Speaker A:He said, I don't think you're ambitious enough.
Speaker A:And he said what?
Speaker A:He said, yeah, I think you need to have greater ambition.
Speaker A:He said, I think you need to aspire to be a crucified slave of Jesus Christ.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:And so for me, you know, when you look at.
Speaker A:We'll talk about this concept in a second.
Speaker A:Aaron, when you look at the New Testament, Paul calls himself over and over again, Paul, slave of Jesus Christ.
Speaker A:James, chapter one, it's not James, half brother of Jesus, James, leader of the church at Jerusalem, It's James, slave of Jesus Christ.
Speaker A:Peter calls himself, not Peter, the great apostle, the one upon who Jesus said he's going to build the church.
Speaker A:It's Peter, slave of Jesus Christ.
Speaker A:And so if we want to do titles, I would say let's.
Speaker A:Let's take the title slave.
Speaker A:You know.
Speaker B:Good word, good word.
Speaker B:All right, I'm going to shift a little bit, and then we're going to come back to that.
Speaker B:Some more questions on that.
Speaker B:You have a deep passion for missions and in desire to send missionaries to the field.
Speaker B:Can you share?
Speaker B:Where's the genesis of that?
Speaker B:Because there's many churches in the United States that don't have a passion for missions the way cross assembly does.
Speaker B:And it's not just you have a passion, you actually have plans in place and encouragement.
Speaker B:When we were there in January, when you began the service, the people in the church know the vision and the mission of the church.
Speaker B:They can say it verbally.
Speaker B:And part of that is sending people to the nations.
Speaker B:So you shared a little Bit about it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So that passion, Aaron, comes from.
Speaker A:From two sources.
Speaker A:Number one, let me give a little story a little while back.
Speaker A:A couple years ago, I was on the mission field with a gathering of mission leaders.
Speaker A:And one of these missionary statesmen had us go around the circle and say, why do we do missions?
Speaker A:And it was, well, because people are lost, or we want to bless others, or we love others.
Speaker A:And I'm the only one that got the.
Speaker A:The question right, man.
Speaker A:My gift is humility.
Speaker A:So let me just tell you right now, I was smarter than everybody else.
Speaker A:I got the question right when it came to me.
Speaker A:I said, we do missions because of the lordship of Jesus Christ.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's the starting point.
Speaker A:The starting point is not.
Speaker A:Well, we have a heart for these hurting people.
Speaker A:That's not the starting point.
Speaker A:The starting point is not because we love people.
Speaker A:I really believe the starting point must be the lordship of Jesus Christ.
Speaker A:We go because Jesus said go.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:There's a book I read a little while back.
Speaker A:Now, I'm going to say this name and understand he is not a friend of Pentecostals, Although he actually helped me with a sermon thing I needed in the past.
Speaker A:But John MacArthur has written a great book called Slave.
Speaker A:And he said the most mistranslated word in our New Testament is servant.
Speaker A:He said over and over and over again.
Speaker A:Our translations translate the word servant of Christ bond servant of Jesus.
Speaker A:He said the word doulos in ancient Greek.
Speaker A:It only has one meaning.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's slave.
Speaker A:If Jesus is the master and I'm a slave of Jesus, when he says go into all the world, I go into all the world.
Speaker A:Yeah, because the master told us to.
Speaker A:I will consistently get this question.
Speaker A:Even though I pulled out what little hair I have left.
Speaker A:Every time I hear this question, I always find one or two more strands.
Speaker A:I got a couple weeks ago and we visited your church.
Speaker A:You're talking about global missions.
Speaker A:Why are you sending all this money around the world when we have lost people right here in Raleigh for the question?
Speaker A:So many times Aaron and I used to throw out the stats.
Speaker A:Well, only X percent goes to unreached this or that.
Speaker A:I've stopped doing all that.
Speaker A:And I said, the reason we go is because Jesus told us to go.
Speaker A:He's the master.
Speaker A:He's calling the shots.
Speaker A:If the master says go into all the world, we go into all the world.
Speaker A:So to answer your question, where does this pass for missions come from?
Speaker A:Number one, it's the lordship Jesus Christ.
Speaker A:He's the Lord.
Speaker A:I'm the slave.
Speaker A:He said go, so we go.
Speaker A:Secondly, honestly, maybe this is because I'm.
Speaker A:I'm just wired a little bit differently than the average.
Speaker A:The reality of hell, I can't escape that, Aaron.
Speaker A:And I don't know that your audience where we're at on the theological spectrum here.
Speaker A:But I mean, the fundamental question is, are people really eternally lost without Jesus Christ?
Speaker A:That's the question.
Speaker A:If the answer to that is yes, within missions is obvious.
Speaker A:Now, I will say this.
Speaker A:It's amazing, and I don't want to get you in hot trouble, and you can just blame it on the crazy guy from Raleigh that you had on your program.
Speaker A:But I have talked to missionaries, I've talked to pastors, and I give them this hypothetical.
Speaker A:There's a man or a woman in the deepest part of Africa or Asia who is born, lives, dies, and they never hear about Jesus Christ.
Speaker A:What happens to them when they die?
Speaker A:The most consistent answers I get from pastors and missionaries are either, number one, we just don't know, okay?
Speaker A:Or number two, they obviously go to heaven because they never had a chance to hear the gospel of Jesus.
Speaker A:Then if.
Speaker A:If people are safe in their ignorance, let's bring everybody home.
Speaker A:Because I could see some guy in Africa, there's like, you know, thanks a lot, Chad.
Speaker A:I was on my way to heaven until you sent your stupid missionary.
Speaker A:I said no to Jesus, and now I'm in hell.
Speaker A:If the default position of the human race is we are lost, then missions is obvious.
Speaker A:So that's a roundabout way of answering your question.
Speaker A:Why do we do missions?
Speaker A:Number one, the lordship of Jesus.
Speaker A:We go because Jesus says to go.
Speaker A:Number two, the state of humanity number.
Speaker A:I am convinced without Christ, people are lost for eternity.
Speaker A:And then I would just say as a third one, and, you know, there's some scripture to back this up.
Speaker A:You know, the Lord bless you, keep you, make his face to shine upon you that your name may be magnified among the nations.
Speaker A:I am convinced that when we as a church, it's the funnel principle.
Speaker A:When we pour out on the bottom of the funnel into the nations, God continues to pour his resources out of the top of the funnel.
Speaker A:The moment we clog up the bottom of that funnel and we stop sending out res to the nations, I really feel like, and I've experienced this, a lot of those resources of God just dries up.
Speaker A:So those are my three reasons.
Speaker A:Lordship of Jesus, the state of lost people, and the number three.
Speaker A:I'm just convinced that as we give resources to the nations, God Keeps pouring resources into us.
Speaker B:Awesome word, Chad.
Speaker B:You're resilient in your.
Speaker B:In ministry.
Speaker B:You know, pastoring in the same place over an extended period of time is becoming less and less common.
Speaker B:How have you stayed.
Speaker B:Stayed resilient in life and ministry and be able to navigate.
Speaker B:People come and asking you why, you know, you're sending money overseas and.
Speaker B:Because I would imagine you get those common questions, and I would imagine it could be challenging.
Speaker B:But how have you.
Speaker B:How have you remained resilient in life and ministry and continued on that course in the same place?
Speaker B:And the reason, the purpose behind this question is this.
Speaker B:A lot of missionaries leave the field.
Speaker B:47% of missionaries leave the field four or four years before they get to the fourth year, they leave.
Speaker B:So that's a huge portion.
Speaker B:Then you get up to about year eight, you lose, you know, probably another 20%.
Speaker B:And so the most productive times in missions is between that year eight and beyond, because, you know, the culture, you understand the language and you're really able to engage, but you're losing a large amount of people before they ever get to that point where they can really function.
Speaker B:And their spiritual gift things, their natural talents and acquired abilities.
Speaker B:And so how have you remained resilient to.
Speaker B:In life and ministry?
Speaker A:Well, that's a great, great question.
Speaker A:I had no idea, Aaron, those status, that's absolutely amazing.
Speaker A:And look, I want to answer your question.
Speaker A:Let me just kind of give you an observation here.
Speaker A:The whole longevity factor is so undervalued in, In American Christianity.
Speaker A:You know, I love what Eugene Peterson called Christianity.
Speaker A:He said, it's a long obedience in the same direction.
Speaker A:And I grew a long obedience in the same direction.
Speaker A:And I did not see really what I would consider success or fruitfulness until multiple years into the ministry.
Speaker A:In fact, I won't tell you the guy's name, but there's a prominent church planter just reading about him today that has seen a lot of people come to Christ.
Speaker A:And he says, all these young church planters come to me and say, what is your key?
Speaker A:I really want to grow a big church, pastor, big church, see some incredible things for the kingdom.
Speaker A:And he says, I always tell them the same five words.
Speaker A:This may take a while.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:He said, I did not see success until year eight, I think, in his ministry.
Speaker A:So that's.
Speaker A:That's interesting.
Speaker A:But look, I thought the longer I was in this, the less I would get.
Speaker A:Not burnt out, but frazzled.
Speaker A:And I go through seasons of just exhilaration in ministry.
Speaker A:And then I'm honest, I'm just Kind of coming out of a season of just say burnout.
Speaker A:But I'm starting to crawl my way out of another little bit of a.
Speaker A:Of a hole here.
Speaker A:And some of that is Aaron.
Speaker A:Personality driven.
Speaker A:I think a lot of times, discouragement.
Speaker A:Some people are more prone to discouragement than others.
Speaker A:You've heard of Charles Spurgeon?
Speaker A:Yeah, you know Spurgeon, Great Victorian pastor.
Speaker A:He constantly wrestled with what he called fainting fits.
Speaker A:If you didn't.
Speaker A:If you read what he was describing, he's describing depression.
Speaker A:He just didn't use those words.
Speaker A:And you'd think, man, this guy's an author.
Speaker A:He's the prominent preacher of his day, pastor of a mega church, and he wrestled with this stuff.
Speaker A:So, you know, when I hit these seasons, I'm.
Speaker A:I want to give you three or four words when I alliterate it, because that's what we are taught to do, is alliterate everything in.
Speaker A:In the church.
Speaker A:So, number one, I had to pursue several things.
Speaker A:Number one, just faithfulness.
Speaker A:A lot of my stress comes about in trying to compete with other churches.
Speaker A:I hate to admit this.
Speaker A:I see how big the church is down the street.
Speaker A:I've got to come up with a new program that's going to be more innovative, to draw more people.
Speaker A:Man, that's wrong.
Speaker A:And First Corinthians 4, 2.
Speaker A:It says, look, it's required among stewards that they just be faithful.
Speaker A:And so I think, number one, if we will just be faithful to the call of God that we have on our life, just hang in there.
Speaker A:One of my favorite Greek words is perseverance.
Speaker A:The Greek word is hupo.
Speaker A:Minnow.
Speaker A:Hupo means under.
Speaker A:Minnow means to remain.
Speaker A:Literally, it means to remain under a load.
Speaker A:Sometimes you gotta just stand in there and be faithful, even when you don't feel like it.
Speaker A:And there have been seasons, I've tried to bail.
Speaker A:In fact, I think sometimes the only reason I'm here is because I have a theological degree, and that's useless in the secular world.
Speaker A:I mean, there was a season I was like, man, I'm tired of church.
Speaker A:I'm tired of ministry.
Speaker A: e back, a TV show back in the: Speaker A:You've heard of that before?
Speaker B:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker A:I drove around country.
Speaker A:He's a driver.
Speaker A:He's got a chimpanzee.
Speaker A:I'm like, that's what I want to do.
Speaker A:I want to drive around the country.
Speaker A:A chimpanzee.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But I think just number one, being faithful.
Speaker A:I heard a guy, I love this analogy.
Speaker A:I heard a pastor a couple days ago said, look, we need more cardiac pastors and less adrenaline pastors.
Speaker A:What he meant by that is, look, your heart, it's hidden.
Speaker A:The human heart is hidden.
Speaker A:You don't see it.
Speaker A:There's nothing nifty or innovative.
Speaker A:It just keeps beating day after day after day.
Speaker A:Just a simple rhythm, simple beats.
Speaker A:That's the cardiac pastor.
Speaker A:You may not be seen cardiac missionary.
Speaker A:You may not be heard of, you know, cardiac worship pastor.
Speaker A:You haven't written any books, but you're faithful.
Speaker A:Just day after day after day, you do what God's called you to do.
Speaker A:Adrenaline pastors, they run on excitement, conferences, books, seminars.
Speaker A:We need more cardiac missionaries, more cardiac pastors and less adrenaline missionaries and pastors just be faithful.
Speaker A:So that's number one, just.
Speaker A:Just be faithful.
Speaker A:Secondly, Aaron, I don't think you can bifurcate the body and the soul and spirit.
Speaker A:I think they're interwoven.
Speaker A:And so, man, I exercise like crazy because when I am doing well physically, there's a spillover effect with.
Speaker A:With emotions and depression.
Speaker A:You know, when I was younger, I used to exercise because I wanted to look good.
Speaker A:Now I'm just trying to stave off death as long as I can.
Speaker A:But, you know, so I would say faithfulness, just.
Speaker A:Just keep hanging there.
Speaker A:You can get through it.
Speaker A:Number two, fitness.
Speaker A:Just staying in shape physically.
Speaker A:And that deals with diet, exercise, that type of sleep.
Speaker A:I heard John Piper say one time, Piper said, back when I did pastoral counseling, he said when people come to me with depression and anxiety, he said I'd always start with this.
Speaker A:Go home for two weeks, eat three good meals a day, exercise for 30 minutes a day, go outside, walk, whatever, and get eight hours of sleep and then come back and talk to me.
Speaker A:And he said, well, over half the people would come back and say, my problem is solved.
Speaker A:Just do the simple physical stuff.
Speaker A:So faithfulness, fitness.
Speaker A:And in Aaron, family, I've noticed this strange.
Speaker A:This strange spiritual connection.
Speaker A:When my family and my marriage is doing well, my ministry and church is doing well.
Speaker A:Yeah, when.
Speaker A:When things aren't going well with family, when there's tension in the family, there's tension in the church.
Speaker A:It's just kind of.
Speaker A:I don't know if it's federal headship or what, but as goes to the leader, so goes the follower.
Speaker A:In these seasons, it forces me to back up and say, I may or may not be pastoring.
Speaker A:I may or may not be on the mission field for another 10 years, but I'm still going to be this woman's husband.
Speaker A:I'm still going to be these kids father.
Speaker A:And so let me focus on family.
Speaker A:So faithfulness, fitness, family, and then just fasting and prayer.
Speaker A:I did this yesterday.
Speaker A:I was telling you offline here.
Speaker A:You can't.
Speaker A:Y'all can see me, but I am scorched because yesterday I got up early in the morning, drove down to the beach.
Speaker A:The very last thing my wife said to me was, perhaps you should put on some sunscreen.
Speaker A:And I said, sunscreen is for sissies.
Speaker A:I don't need sunscreen.
Speaker A:And now I blistered.
Speaker A:But I just spent several hours walking the beach with Jesus.
Speaker A:And okay, I know you can have personal quiet times in your home.
Speaker A:You can have, you know, daily quiet times of the Lord.
Speaker A:I get that.
Speaker A:But every now and then it's good to just go off and be with Jesus.
Speaker A:And when I'm at the breaking point and I'm like, I'm about to burn out, if I'll just get along with Jesus for a day or two, it's amazing what that does to my spirit.
Speaker B:Yeah, good word.
Speaker B:Good, good word.
Speaker B:One of the quotes that jumped out to me when you, when you began to share was Oswald Sanders.
Speaker B:I've been reading Spiritual Leadership says often the pressure a spiritual leader feels comes from assuming tasks that God has not assigned.
Speaker B:For such tasks, the leader cannot expect God to supply the extra strength required.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:And it has been, it has been a quote.
Speaker B:I went through a time of prayer and fasting in Jan.
Speaker B:You know, in the first three weeks of the year.
Speaker B:That quote.
Speaker B:I, you know, I've read that book.
Speaker B:I read it in Bible school.
Speaker B:I've read it before.
Speaker B:I don't ever remember reading it.
Speaker B:But, you know, in those, those three weeks, it's something that has resonated with me because a lot of, I think a lot of the pressure I feel and my desire not to be resilient is because I've just taken up tasks that God's not asked me to do.
Speaker B:But then I'm praying, God, give me the strength.
Speaker B:God, give me the strength.
Speaker B:And then when I'm wore down and, you know, frustrated and irritated and all the other things you don't want to be, it's because God's not asked me to do it.
Speaker B:And I'm asking him for energy for things that he's not asked me to do.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:And as you shared, that then ripples on into my family, it ripples into me as a husband and as a Father and all these other things.
Speaker B:But anyway, just really resonate with what you, what you shared, and I appreciate your transparency.
Speaker B:And it helps us all.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker B:It helps us all.
Speaker A:So that's, that's an incredible word.
Speaker A:And I would really file what you just shared under the faithfulness thing.
Speaker A:I, I got to be faithful to what God has called me to do.
Speaker A:I mean, the, the, the Saul's armor syndrome is so prevalent in ministry, you know.
Speaker A:Well, pastor so and so fights his battles this way.
Speaker A:This is his calling.
Speaker A:This is his gifting.
Speaker A:Perhaps I need to be more like that.
Speaker A:And what you're doing is taking Saul's armor and putting on it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And look, I, I want to be.
Speaker A:I really want to be a counselor.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm not a counselor.
Speaker A:I mean, my, I tried it, you know, because I thought that's what pastors all needed to be, pastoral counselors, and people would basically come in.
Speaker A:I listened to their problems for 30 minutes, kind of nod my head, and then I said, well, life's hard.
Speaker A:God's good.
Speaker A:Suck it up.
Speaker A:You'd be all right.
Speaker A:And that was my counseling.
Speaker A:When I tried to be a counselor, I got very, very drained.
Speaker A:When I tried to be an executive, a CEO, a manager, whatever, I got burnt out.
Speaker A:I think you're exactly right.
Speaker A:Burnout comes from several different factors, but one of the biggest factors is when you're trying to do what God has not called you to do, you're going to burn out.
Speaker A:That's a great word, man.
Speaker A:I love that quote, Master Chad.
Speaker B:So when you look as a spiritual leader, you know that once back into this resiliency, looking at you've been a spiritual leader for a long.
Speaker B:What are some lessons you've learned about being a spiritual leader?
Speaker B:Maybe that's one of them.
Speaker B:You just shared that, you know, doing what God's called you to do and not trying to do things he's not called you to do.
Speaker B:Are there other things you've learned as being a spiritual leader?
Speaker B:Because there's a lot of books out there on leadership.
Speaker B:You know, you can get them.
Speaker B:And I'm not against business leadership books, but being a spiritual leader is a different thing.
Speaker B:And that's why back at all is Walt Sanders.
Speaker B:I mean, it's, it's.
Speaker B:It's one of them.
Speaker B:But being a spiritual leader, it's.
Speaker B:It's a challenging thing, and there's just not much.
Speaker B:There's not many books written about it and thoughts on it.
Speaker A:Man, that's great.
Speaker A:And you are right.
Speaker A:I understand there's some overlap between secular leadership and spiritual leadership.
Speaker A:But unless you've done what we're doing and what your audience is doing, try to be a leader in a spiritual enterprise, you don't understand.
Speaker A:There's a dimension there that I don't think the secular leadership folks can, can quite understand.
Speaker A:And I do believe this.
Speaker A:I think 80, 90% of leadership, whether it be spiritual leadership or secular leadership, I think a lot of it's just instinct.
Speaker A:Books are good, but a lot of it's just instinctual.
Speaker A:But you know, some of the lessons I've learned.
Speaker A:Aaron, I'll start with this one.
Speaker A:I mean, C.J.
Speaker A:mahaney wrote a great book called Humility, and he quotes John Stott.
Speaker A:And in this book he says, in every phase of our spiritual development, something like this, our greatest friend is humility and our greatest enemy is pride.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker A:I didn't realize how much pride is in my heart, man.
Speaker A:If you were to ask me 20 years ago when I started at this church, I said, I'm very, very humble.
Speaker A:But then I compete with other pastors.
Speaker A:Why is my church not this big?
Speaker A:Why, you know, this or that?
Speaker A:I think the lesson of humility has been a slow lesson for me to learn.
Speaker A:But looking back, a lot of my challenges in ministry came about because of latent pride that I didn't know was there.
Speaker A:So I would just say, number one, you know, humility.
Speaker A:You know, one of the most commonly quoted sayings of Jesus in the New Testament, James quotes this, Peter quotes this is God.
Speaker A:Whoever exalts themselves will be humbled.
Speaker A:Whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
Speaker A:So I would say, number one, the lesson of humility.
Speaker A:Aaron it's kind of interesting.
Speaker A:I learned this lesson a few years ago and it really helped me.
Speaker A:The issue is not time management.
Speaker A:The issue is energy management.
Speaker A:Good.
Speaker A:I look nothing against these resources, but when I started at this church, I'm like, well, I'm in an urban church with a bunch of professionals.
Speaker A:I need to have a good time management system.
Speaker A:So I brought you remember the Franklin Planners?
Speaker A:Do you remember those?
Speaker A:I bought these elaborate time management systems because I was going to be an executive.
Speaker A:I'm pastoring in this big white collar city, whatever.
Speaker A:Time management is not the issue.
Speaker A:It's energy management.
Speaker A:And in fact, there's a great book.
Speaker A:It's a little bit dated.
Speaker A: I think it's from the early: Speaker A:It's called the Power of Full Engagement Engagement by Jim Lehrer and Tony Schwartz.
Speaker A:They're like a psychologist and a sports physiologist.
Speaker A:And they said the greatest leaders, they manage their energy more than they manage their time.
Speaker A:And they have routines once their energy is depleted to refill those energy reservoirs.
Speaker A:And so looking at my week, I know when I'm going to have some peak times of activity.
Speaker A:And so I'm good about planning right after that, times of getting refilled and refreshed.
Speaker A:And it's a great book.
Speaker A:I don't want to get into all the details on that, but the issue is energy management, not time management.
Speaker A:So humility, the energy management.
Speaker A:I just read this recently.
Speaker A:There's a concept called primal leadership.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Daniel Goldman is a, and he's an evolutionary psychologist.
Speaker A:We don't believe in it.
Speaker A:I don't believe in evolution.
Speaker A:But he says the human brain, the limbic system, the human, human brain is hardwired to take its cues from the leader.
Speaker A:So you've heard that phrase, you know, if mom ain't happy, nobody's happy.
Speaker A:Yeah, mom is the leader.
Speaker A:The limbic brain of the kids take their cues from the mom.
Speaker A:If she's depressed, the kid's gonna be depressed.
Speaker A:If she's happy, the kids gonna be happy.
Speaker A:That whole concept of primal leadership, I've had to learn that lesson as a pastor that if I'm down and discouraged and mealy mouth, it's gonna be amazing how that works its way through the whole congregation.
Speaker A:If I'm passionate for the Lord and on fire for the Lord, that they're picking up on that.
Speaker A:And so that whole thing of limbic, the limbic system, primal leadership, as a leader, I have to guard and manage my emotions because there's a trickle down effect.
Speaker A:That's a lesson I've learned a little too late.
Speaker A:I wish I'd known that years ago that Chad, you actually set the pace for the organization.
Speaker A:And then honestly, Aaron, the last one that has really helped me and Oz Guinness wrote about this.
Speaker A:It's called playing to an audience of one.
Speaker A:For years I tried to make elders happy, deacons happy, pastors happy, staff happy, my wife happy.
Speaker A:As a leader, that'll drive you crazy.
Speaker A:When I finally said, no, I'm just going to play to an audience of one.
Speaker A:I'm going to really focus on pleasing the Lord.
Speaker A:It's amazing.
Speaker A:When I please Jesus, everything else seems to fall into place.
Speaker A:And I think a lot of leaders, they're like chameleons.
Speaker A:They have one eye on Jesus and the other eyeball is focused on people.
Speaker A:You know, Luke 12, Jesus says this look, don't fear those who can kill the body.
Speaker A:And after that they can't do anything, anything else.
Speaker A:He says, if you want to fear somebody, fear the one who has the power to kill and throw into hell.
Speaker A:Now, this is Jesus talking to disciples.
Speaker A:And I'm finding out now the greatest spiritual leaders, be they missionaries, pastors, are those who play to an audience of one.
Speaker A:I just want to honor God.
Speaker A:I just want to please God.
Speaker A:And I got this quote.
Speaker A:Let me read.
Speaker A:This is from Chuck Swindoll.
Speaker A:Swindoll says this.
Speaker A:Those who seek to please God only are invincible from within.
Speaker A:Not only that, but when we stop striving to please people, we are also unintimidated from without.
Speaker A:The church of Jesus Christ needs more invincible, unintimidated pastors and missionaries.
Speaker A:True spiritual leadership cannot occur as long as the leader runs scared of what the people may think or say or do.
Speaker A:Isn't that great?
Speaker B:That's an awesome word.
Speaker A:And so when I stopped trying to please everybody, Aaron, and say, you know what?
Speaker A:My, my, my, my primary audience, the audience of one is, is the Lord.
Speaker A:Let me just please him, man.
Speaker A:That's a huge lesson that took a huge burden off my shoulders.
Speaker B:Good word and a very encouraging word.
Speaker B:Pastor Chad, I got one more question for you, and then I'm going to ask you, ask you to pray for us.
Speaker B:So one of the other giftings, you have many giftings.
Speaker B:One is preaching.
Speaker B:So we live in a turbulent cultural times where.
Speaker B:But what are some words of encouragement for those listening in who are struggling maybe to push back against some of the cultural pool and maybe people wanting them to change the way what God's word say says.
Speaker B:But, yeah, any words of encouragement because you remain steadfast, you're courageous.
Speaker B:And so any words of encouragement for those listening in?
Speaker A:Well, look, I don't want to sound like my grand grandpa.
Speaker A:I'm listening to all these younger preachers today.
Speaker A:But most sermons today are kind of like I listen to.
Speaker A:They're like the life lessons that Bob Saget would give the Olsen twins at the end of every episode.
Speaker A:Just believe in yourself and you can do it.
Speaker A:Five steps to a Sizzling Marriage.
Speaker A:Two steps to financial Freedom.
Speaker A:Man, in these final days, people are hungry for Thus saith the Lord, Straight word of God.
Speaker A:There's something powerful about the word of God.
Speaker A:And so I would say to those whose job it is to proclaim the truth of scripture, let's go back to what I just said.
Speaker A:Your audience on Sunday morning is, is not the congregation.
Speaker A:Your audience really is the God of the universe.
Speaker A:And when people ask me, you know, Chad, you say some things in the pulpit that are a little bit jarring.
Speaker A:They kind of set people off a little bit.
Speaker A:Does it not bother you?
Speaker A:Are you not afraid of the pushback you're going to get that?
Speaker A:The answer really is no, it's not.
Speaker A:Because I want to be obedient to what God's called me to do.
Speaker A:So I would say those who proclaim from the pulpit the word of God, be bold and be strong.
Speaker A:You know, John Piper said I went through the Gospels and beside every tough saying of Jesus I put to, he said, beside every tender statement of Jesus, I put text.
Speaker A:He said, when I went back and counted the tos far outnumber the TE's, Jesus said some tough things in his sermons and in his preaching and in his teaching.
Speaker A:And so we're to be like our master now, again.
Speaker A:We're not trying to just get a rise out of people and say harsh things just to get people going here.
Speaker A:But, Aaron, what I found is when we stand and boldly proclaim the word of God, even the tough parts, it's amazing how people are attracted to that.
Speaker A:We're afraid of repelling people by.
Speaker A:By preaching the word of God.
Speaker A:I guess my mandate is no, there's a hunger for the word of God in the land right now.
Speaker A:We are.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker A:I'm going to be sharing this on Sunday.
Speaker A:We're going to be put on local television here in Raleigh.
Speaker A:Actually, it's going to reach all of eastern North Carolina here in a couple of weeks.
Speaker A:We're going to have a weekly television program.
Speaker A:One of the most liberal media organizations in North Carolina has invited us to be on television.
Speaker A:Even though I speak against transgenderism, homosexuality, you know, I tell people they're going to hell, all that kind of stuff, which tells me there really is a hunger for the word of God, even among the left out there.
Speaker A:So to answer your question, play to an audience of one, boldly proclaim the Word of God, and the results are not up to you.
Speaker A:They're up to the Holy Spirit.
Speaker B:That's good.
Speaker B:That's good.
Speaker B:Pastor Chad 1.
Speaker B:I said one last question.
Speaker B:One last.
Speaker B:Any words of encouragement for the missionaries that are listening?
Speaker B:Then I'm going to ask you to pray.
Speaker B:Sorry, I said one last question.
Speaker B:I'm throwing another one in there.
Speaker B:Any words of encouragement for the missionaries listening into this?
Speaker A:Yep, just two things.
Speaker A:Number one, I would say this just know Jesus, we complicate this thing so much.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I just say, stay close to Jesus.
Speaker A:Years ago, I did a little word study on Proverbs 3, 6, you know, we say, in all of our ways, acknowledge him and he'll direct our paths.
Speaker A:That's not what it says in Hebrew.
Speaker A:The word is yada.
Speaker A:It literally says, in all your ways, just know him and he's going to direct your paths.
Speaker A:What I'm found out is I don't need a five year plan, 10 year plan, 20 year plan.
Speaker A:If I just stay close to Jesus and I know him intimately and personally, I'm going to end up where I need to end up.
Speaker A:And so I would say, number one, just stay close to Jesus.
Speaker A:And the number two, I would say keep, keep eternity in mind.
Speaker A:We get so focused.
Speaker A:I did this a couple weeks ago at a funeral.
Speaker A:I'd say on account of three, I want everybody to blink.
Speaker A:One, two, three.
Speaker A:And they blinked.
Speaker A:And I said something like, I can't remember the exact number, but if you live to be 75 years old, that blink is 1/6 billionth of your life.
Speaker A:And yet in the scheme of Eternity, our 76 years here on planet Earth is shorter than that blink.
Speaker A:So let's, let's not get so focused on this blink.
Speaker A:Let's focus on eternity.
Speaker A:And let me just close out with this.
Speaker A:Aaron.
Speaker A:125 A.D.
Speaker A:there's a philosopher named Aristides.
Speaker A:He was reporting to Emperor Hadrian as to why Christianity was still exploding.
Speaker A:Even though I'm trying to wipe out Christians, trying to kill all these people, and yet the movement is exploding.
Speaker A:What's going on?
Speaker A:And Aristides wrote this to Hadrian.
Speaker A:He said, quote, here's what's going on.
Speaker A:If any righteous person of their number dies and passes away from this world, the rest of them rejoice and give thanks to their God, as if that person was leaving one place and going to another.
Speaker A:It's interesting this pagan philosopher recognized something we have forgotten.
Speaker A:When the body of Christ keeps eternity in mind, man, we are invincible.
Speaker A:So I would say to, to missionaries and pastors kind of caught up into the mundane of ministry.
Speaker A:Stay close to Jesus.
Speaker A:And the number two, just keep eternity in mind.
Speaker A:We're here for a short time and we've got to keep that eternal focus.
Speaker B:Pastor, will you pray for us?
Speaker A:Let's do it.
Speaker A:So Father, we come before your throne of grace with confidence through the blood of your son, Jesus Christ.
Speaker A:And Lord, I pray for every person listening to this right now.
Speaker A:What I speak against discouragement that has come against some of my brothers and sisters.
Speaker A:Lord, I speak against this lethargy that has come up against, against my brothers and sisters.
Speaker A:I pray, Father God, that in these last days.
Speaker A:As Daniel says, those who do know their God will be strong and do exploits.
Speaker A:Father, I pray right now for a knowledge and intimacy of Jesus to rise up again.
Speaker A:And I pray that knowledge of Jesus, that love of Jesus, Father, that passion of Jesus will help them to be strong and do exploits.
Speaker A:Father, like you said to Joshua, I say to my brothers and sisters right now, be bold and be strong.
Speaker A:For the Lord your God is with you.
Speaker A:Lord, I thank you for the call of God on their lives.
Speaker A:And we proclaim the God who began the good work is going to carry that work onto completion.
Speaker A:In Christ Jesus.
Speaker A:In Jesus name we pray.
Speaker A:Amen.
Speaker B:Amen.
