Randy and Rozann Fraze on Encountering God's Love
The conversation today centers around the profound connection between personal faith and the transformative power of Scripture, as exemplified by the insights shared by Randy and Roseanne Fraze. They delve into their newly published devotional, which emphasizes the duality of the "upper story" and "lower story" in the Bible, thereby revealing how God's overarching narrative intertwines with our everyday lives. Through their extensive experience in ministry, they articulate the necessity of engaging with the Word of God as a means of navigating life's complexities and uncertainties. The episode encapsulates their passionate commitment to helping others cultivate a deep and personal relationship with Scripture, ultimately aiming to foster a greater understanding of God's purpose in our lives. As we listen, we are invited to reflect on how our individual stories connect to the greater narrative of faith that transcends time and circumstance.
Takeaways:
- The podcast episode emphasizes that understanding the Bible as one continuous story can provide clarity amidst life's complexities and challenges.
- Randy and Roseanne Fraze share their personal experiences of discovering their passion for God's word, highlighting its transformative power.
- The concept of the upper and lower stories in the Bible illustrates how individual circumstances fit within God's overarching narrative.
- Listeners are encouraged to engage with Scripture daily, as even short periods of reflection can yield significant spiritual growth and insight.
- The importance of community in studying the Bible is underscored, suggesting that accountability and shared insights enhance understanding and commitment to faith.
- The Frazes' new devotional aims to connect personal stories with biblical narratives, facilitating a deeper relationship with God and His teachings.
Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker B:Hey there and welcome back to the Clarity Podcast.
Speaker B:This podcast is all about providing clarity, insight and encouragement for life and mission.
Speaker B:And my name is Aaron Sandemier and I get to be your host.
Speaker B:Today we have the phenomenal opportunity to have with us on the podcast Randy and Roseanne Frazee.
Speaker B:We get to sit down and learn from them about their new devotional that they've published and put out, and also just their deep love for God's word.
Speaker B:Both of them have many years of experience in life and in ministry, and it was just fun to spend time with them.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:As one, as I say often on the podcast, one of the joys of being a podcast host is you get to read phenomenal material, you get to meet phenomenal people.
Speaker B:And this is another one of those opportunities.
Speaker B:And really appreciated Randy and Roseanne being on the podcast.
Speaker B:Do want to ask you to continue to send in your questions for Backchannel with Foth.
Speaker B:That's where we get sit down with Dick Foth and get to learn from him and also ask you to subscribe to the podcast.
Speaker B:I know the podcasts.
Speaker B:I subscribe to, the ones I listen to.
Speaker B:And I do want to thank you all the faithful listeners who've listened down through the years and maybe some new listeners in the last few months and just been a joy and looking forward to the days ahead with the podcast.
Speaker B:Well, there's no time better than now to get started, so here we go.
Speaker A:Greetings.
Speaker B:Welcome back to the Clarity Podcast.
Speaker B:So excited to be here with some new friends in the podcast.
Speaker B:Would you go ahead and just share a little bit about yourself before I jump in and start asking you a bunch of questions?
Speaker A:You bet.
Speaker A:My name is Randy Frazee and I'll let Roseanne introduce herself.
Speaker A:We've been married for 44 years.
Speaker A:We have four children and.
Speaker A:And five grandchildren.
Speaker A:And so I'll let her maybe speak a little bit more to that.
Speaker A:But we got married as high school sweethearts.
Speaker A:Actually, we started dating when I was 15, got married when I was 20, and so we've been married a long time and we've been in ministry the entire time, been a lead pastor of churches for 37 years and now pastor emeritus in a church in Kansas City, as well as helping a new church plant in Napa Valley, as well as enjoy writing and consulting and just anything that has to do with church and missionary work, you know, count us in.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker B:Roseanne.
Speaker A:Roseanne.
Speaker C:I'm Roseanne Frazee and I have known this guy since I was 17 years old.
Speaker C:And we have a Lot of history together.
Speaker C:We do have four children and five grandchildren.
Speaker C:Did you say that already?
Speaker A:Yeah, but tell us, give me a second on our grandchildren.
Speaker A:We have two here in San Antonio.
Speaker C:We have, yeah.
Speaker C:Two living here with us and not with us, but in the area.
Speaker C:Very close.
Speaker C:And they've lived with close to us, probably all of our granddaughters.
Speaker C:16 years and she's about to be 17 this week.
Speaker C:Then we have three grandchildren who live in D.C. yeah.
Speaker C:Washington, D.C. and they were adopted about two years ago by my, my son and daughter in law who had a passion to adopt some of the poorest children in the world.
Speaker C:And they are from Bulgaria and just, they're just delightful.
Speaker C:We have just fallen in love with these three little girls.
Speaker C:They're sisters.
Speaker C:Gabrielle is six and the other, the twins are five.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker C:That's consumes our thoughts and hearts and it's, our life is full.
Speaker C:So I love to write and I love to read and I'm passionate about cooking and having people over all the time.
Speaker C:And that's pretty much where my passions lie.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:And I'm gonna get that.
Speaker C:Oh, and pickleball.
Speaker B:And pickleball.
Speaker B:Well, there you go.
Speaker C:As time would have let it.
Speaker B:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker B:It sounds like you got a full life.
Speaker B:So I'm, I'm excited to learn from you all today specifically about your love for God's Word.
Speaker B:Can you kind of share the Genesis story you, you both shared?
Speaker B:You've spent a lot of time in life in min, but sometimes people in ministry, you can be in ministry, but not necessarily your love for God's word can wax and wane, but you both have a passion for that and making that connection with other people.
Speaker B:So could you just share kind of the Genesis story of your love for God's word?
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You want to go first, Roseanne?
Speaker C:I can.
Speaker C:I was raised in a Christian home, and so I was always, I always knew Jesus.
Speaker C:And at 6, I decided I wanted him to come into my life.
Speaker C:But I struggled to know that I really made that decision at 6 years old.
Speaker C:And so I had a lot of doubts.
Speaker C:And so when I got to college, I heard a message by one of the pastors there and decided that I needed to settle this once and for all.
Speaker C:So I made my decision.
Speaker C:So I think a lot of kids in that call in those college years are searching for their own faith and to make their faith their own.
Speaker C:And I feel like I did that then.
Speaker C:So that's where I really fell in love with Jesus.
Speaker C:And God's word took a little longer Because I would try to read through the Bible, but I couldn't get through it just like anybody else.
Speaker C:Even as a pastor's wife for years, I struggled.
Speaker A:So, yeah, you know, for me.
Speaker A:Yeah, for me.
Speaker A:I started dating Roseanne before she went to college thinking she was a believer.
Speaker A:So I did not know that I was dating an unequ.
Speaker A:Yoked sister to be.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, it was funny.
Speaker A:I grew up in an unchurched home in Cleveland, Ohio, where Zann and I both were raised.
Speaker A:And my parents weren't against Jesus.
Speaker A:He just didn't make the short list of priorities in their life like so many people.
Speaker A:And I remember growing up, my mom, my grandmother gave me a Bible.
Speaker A:I still have it.
Speaker A:It's a fake leather King James version of the Bible with a zipper on it.
Speaker A:And as a kid, I would read it like Roseanne.
Speaker A:I didn't get it.
Speaker A:Was invited to church by a neighbor that worked with my dad two doors down.
Speaker A:And to be honest with you, we started getting into the scriptures as a teenager, like 14, 15 years old.
Speaker A:And, you know, really, really what it was, Aaron?
Speaker A:It was initially, it wasn't the.
Speaker A:It wasn't the scriptures.
Speaker A:It was the men that I got to meet who were living out the scriptures that they learned.
Speaker A:And one of them was Roseanne's dad, who was a spiritual mentor in my life.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And so that's kind of where the journey of God's word really began for us.
Speaker A:And then where it really took off is when I became a.
Speaker A:And one of the projects that I did, I sensed that people in our church were.
Speaker A:It was a Bible church in Dallas, Fort Worth.
Speaker A:I went to Dallas Theological Seminary for my graduate work.
Speaker A:And I just sense, hey, we're in a Bible church.
Speaker A:And people don't really even know the basic storyline of the Bible.
Speaker A:And so I looked for a way to help people with that.
Speaker A:And, and that just really developed a real hunger for me.
Speaker A:And we ended up writing a really wonderful project called the Story, which is an abridged chronology, but a full on Bible campaign.
Speaker A:And that's just really has overtaken our lives in ministry.
Speaker A:I think for a lot missionaries, you know, you find, you know, you find, you know, you've got this big work and you're kind of doing everything, but you find a niche, you know, something that really is unique to you.
Speaker A:And so for Roseanne and I, scripture engagement has.
Speaker A:We didn't ask for it.
Speaker A:It just sort of became God's plan for our life.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Good word, good word.
Speaker B:And one of the things.
Speaker B:Sorry, go ahead.
Speaker C:No, I was going to say, I think the time that I fell in love was after we did this, after Randy crafted the story and we did it as a church and we came across the concept of the upper and lower stories.
Speaker C:That is when it really.
Speaker C:My love for God's word was like, oh, wow, I've never seen this before.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And it became more applicable to my life.
Speaker C:So we can get into that more.
Speaker C:Yeah, I love where I really fell into love with God's word.
Speaker B:Yeah, that was my.
Speaker B:That was my question for you.
Speaker B:So upper and lower story.
Speaker B:Can you share more about it?
Speaker A:Yeah, you know, it's the.
Speaker A:There's basically.
Speaker A:I think everyone listening will have an idea, but it's really transformed a lot of people's lives.
Speaker A:We just launched the story campaign out in Napa Valley and a little church plan.
Speaker A:I think missionaries will really get that.
Speaker A:And they're just.
Speaker A:Eyes were lit up when they see that throughout the Bible, there's two stories going on at the same time in the lower story, basically, it's from our point of view.
Speaker A:And you can read the scriptures and pick up the story from a human point of view.
Speaker A:A good example of that would be Job.
Speaker A:You know, all of these things happen to him, but he has no idea.
Speaker A:I mean, he is living his life linearly, horizontally, and finite, and all these things happen to him.
Speaker A:He can't see around the bend.
Speaker A:He doesn't know why it happened, but he sees his life, you know, from a lower story.
Speaker A:Little did he know there was an upper story going on at the same time, you know, a conversation between God and Satan, you know, that he never really caught onto.
Speaker A:But as you read all 42 chapters in job, what you really see is that God was weaving all of his lower story encounters to tell a one grand upper story.
Speaker A:And what we see is that's running through the entire pages of Scripture.
Speaker A:And so the new devotional will be written consistent with the story.
Speaker A:Shows that dual story going on at the same time.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:Super, super insightful.
Speaker B:Is that something you just.
Speaker B:That you picked up on or how did you.
Speaker B:That concept, upper and lower story, Is that something you studied when you were in seminary?
Speaker A:Yeah, no, I'll tell you.
Speaker A:I'll tell you, and then I'll have Roseanne give you.
Speaker A:I'm going to start Satan, cite an example, and then let Roseanne kind of explain the summary of.
Speaker A:She doesn't mind.
Speaker A:So I was.
Speaker A:When we come across the.
Speaker A:This abridged chronology of the Bible called the story, I was at the time, I was a teaching Pastor at a church in Chicago called Willow Creek Community Church.
Speaker A:And so they asked me if I would do the Wednesday night program, which, if you know anything about the church, is extremely large at the time.
Speaker A:And, and I was super excited.
Speaker A:And week three of this 31 week journey was the story of Joseph of the Old Testament.
Speaker A:And I taught for the very first time I use the language upper and lower story.
Speaker A:And, and it just captured people's attention.
Speaker A:I'm like, wow, I was born at night, but not last night.
Speaker A:Let's go with this.
Speaker A:And so I built it into service and maybe give a summary of, of the Joseph story.
Speaker C:Oh, well, the Joseph story is he's.
Speaker C:He's a young boy and he has these two dreams and he is his father's favorite of 12 children.
Speaker C:And he goes to his older brothers and tells them about the dreams where the sun, moon and stars are bow.
Speaker C:Or the sun and the sun, moon and stars are bowing down to him, thinking his brothers are going to celebrate this with him.
Speaker C:And he thinks I'm, you know, you guys are the stars and mom and dad are the sun and moon.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:And they're like, yeah, right, that is never going to happen.
Speaker C:So time goes on and his dad makes him this coat of many colors and his brothers go into the desert basically with the flocks, and they're away for a while.
Speaker C:And his dad sends him to find out where they're at and bring them some food probably.
Speaker C:And they get upset with him and they plot to kill him.
Speaker C:But instead of killing him, they throw him in a pit and sell him into slavery in Egypt.
Speaker C:So while he's in Egypt, he goes through all these ups and downs.
Speaker C:He's in Potiphar's house running the household that he's in prison.
Speaker C:And then he gets out of prison and interprets Pharaoh's dream and anyway, just ups and downs.
Speaker C:He's accused of sexual improprieties with Potiphar's wife and accused of something he didn't do.
Speaker C:Anyway, it's a complicated story, but I mean, he had every right to be mad at his brothers.
Speaker C:And yet then there's a famine in the land and the brothers show up in Egypt because they need some food.
Speaker C:And I left out the part where after he interpreted Pharaoh's dream, he was going to.
Speaker C:He had told them that there were going to be seven years of plenty and seven years of famine.
Speaker C:And Potiphar makes him leader over all of the land and he's in charge of distributing Pharaoh, sorry, all the land and he's distributing the food.
Speaker C:And all of a sudden his brothers show up one day and they want food and they're bowing down before him.
Speaker C:And so the ability of Joseph to forgive his brothers and say what you meant for evil, God meant for good, meant that there was something Joseph captured that the brothers didn't realize, and sometimes we don't realize either, but that God had a plan and God is faithful and his plan will succeed.
Speaker C:And I just believe that knowing that God's upper plan was happening and believing God and that he was faithful allowed Joseph to get through those years.
Speaker C:We never, we never see that Joseph was discouraged or sad or angry or anything.
Speaker C:He may have had days like that, but it's not recorded.
Speaker C:And then to be able to forgive his brothers.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker C:So we learn a lot from Joseph's lower story life.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:But when you put it in perspective and the troubles that he went through, it gives us a different perspective, especially when we go through trials in this life.
Speaker B:Yeah, that word.
Speaker B:Good word.
Speaker B:Randy.
Speaker A:Yeah, I was just going to say it was a 22 year period from the time he had the dream until his brothers bowed down to him and there was a lot of up and down.
Speaker A:And actually I think he did struggle quite a bit because it tells us when he names his two children, Ephraim and Manasseh.
Speaker A:You know, he basically says one one of the names means God has caused me to forget.
Speaker A:Meaning that at some point in the journey, probably when he got children, you know, he didn't wake up one day thinking about the betrayal of his brothers and God had caused him to forget because he's now on this new trajectory and he names the second Son blessing or second blessing.
Speaker A:And it meant that, okay, I lost it, but now God has given it back to me.
Speaker A:And so somewhere along the line he captured that God was using all of the ups and downs of his life to tell a story.
Speaker A:And what, what's really so powerful about that is that that's still happening today.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And that if you're in a point of discouragement, Romans 8, 28 says, if you love God and will align your life to his upper story or to his call, he promises to write a good story for your life.
Speaker A:So what you see all throughout the scriptures is something very profound for us today.
Speaker A:And I have to think with the time you spend in places like Papua New guinea and all that, that there was a lot of ups and downs and, you know, anything, what God did you bring us here for?
Speaker A:But then over time, over time it usually looking backwards, you get an idea, okay, God used this maybe not for my good at the time, but for the good of the kingdom of God.
Speaker A:And I can live with that.
Speaker A:You know, that God, maybe I went through some difficult times, but your kingdom was advanced.
Speaker A:And that just inserts lots of purpose into our life for sure.
Speaker B:One of the other things you mentioned as I got to read through the devotional is this idea that the Bible is a continuous story and how that brings clarity into the confusion kind of our everyday life.
Speaker B:Can you just share, you've touched on that just a little bit already, but this idea that it's a continuous story, that we're part of that story, but it helps bring clarity in a world that there's a lot of confusion in today.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'll start off and then let Roseanne, you know, kind of put some color commentary to it.
Speaker A:But, you know, one of the things I discovered when I was helping my first congregation try to figure out the story, you know, they've invested 10, 15, 20 years in the church and if they stuck a microphone in their face and said, hey, tell me, just tell me the storyline of the Bible from old to New Testament, most of them would, you know, would, would know whether to spit or wind their watch.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:It's like, it seems like one of the basic ROIs of going to church for a period is, you know, the basic, even if you don't understand what it means, but you understand the basic storyline.
Speaker A:So what we discovered is that the reason people struggle with reading through the Bible in a year is that the Bible is a story, but it's organized topically, not chronologically, and people get lost in the story.
Speaker A:It'd be like reading your favorite novel as mine, you know, was a guy named Robert Ludlam who wrote the Bourne Identity series.
Speaker A:I can't imagine starting on page 375, you know, with the complication.
Speaker A: s of the Bible written over a: Speaker A:So what we have discovered is that when you, when you allow people to see the Bible in chronological order, that it for the first time puts the story together for them so that they become self feeders.
Speaker A:They can come back and later discover, you know, and read the book of Habakkuk for themselves and have some idea of where Habakkuk fits in the overall story of the scripture and then they discover it.
Speaker A:In fact, it is one grand story.
Speaker A:Not hundreds of ancient unrelated stories, but one grand love story.
Speaker A:Roseanne, you're going to add something to
Speaker C:that that was pretty Good.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:The fact that you go through the story and you realize that it is one, it's God's love story to us, it's a love letter.
Speaker C:And you realize the extent he went to get it back, back in a relationship with us is, is just incredible, you know, and the fact that he has us, you know, where he wants us, and we can, we can choose to be an antagonist or a protagonist in the story.
Speaker C:You can either align yourself with the will of God or you can fight it all the way.
Speaker C:And you just have to decide who you want to be in this story because he will use you one way or another.
Speaker B:Yeah, good word.
Speaker B:So you talk or you share about five movements of God's story.
Speaker B:Honestly, I'd never.
Speaker B:I've 300 some episodes into this and this is the first time this, this concept has come up.
Speaker B:So can you share about these and the importance of them and how they help us when we read God's Word?
Speaker B:So if the five movements of God's
Speaker A:story, you want to tell the five movements and then I'll kind of give
Speaker C:a little commentary, you know, the five movements are the garden, Israel, Jesus, the church, and the garden.
Speaker C:Again, it's a cycle.
Speaker C:It's not a line, it's a circle.
Speaker C:God's trying to get us back into a relationship with him and back into the garden where he can walk in the cool of the day with us.
Speaker C:Those are the five movements?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So for people to see that it is a continuous story, but it actually is a circle.
Speaker A:It starts off in a garden and it ends in a garden.
Speaker A:And it's helpful for people who are particularly missionaries who are trying to teach people maybe that haven't heard the word of God or maybe just getting in their language for the first time, who are very story based.
Speaker A:That's the universal thing we all share together, is that it's not that complicated.
Speaker A:The elevator pitches of the Bible is five stories.
Speaker A:And you know what we do in our devotional is we give a summary paragraph of those five devotional of those five movements.
Speaker A:So that, and then we really try to encourage believers to be discipled in telling those five, so five simple paragraphs, you can tell somebody the entire story, realizing that the Gospel actually doesn't begin in Matthew chapter one, but it began on the very first pages of scripture before the fall, but certainly at the fall, you see all the signs that God is going to unveil a plan with Israel, the first community he develops.
Speaker A:Everything points to the first coming of Jesus.
Speaker A:Jesus is the solution to getting us Back into the garden.
Speaker A:The story of the church is a new community that's pointing to the second coming of Jesus.
Speaker A:And we finally, when he comes back, we who believe are invited back into that garden where the tree of life appears again.
Speaker A:The tree of the knowledge of good and evil, which appeared in the first garden, is no longer there.
Speaker A:All of us have made our decision prior to the new garden, so that tree is not needed anymore.
Speaker A:So instead of garden of the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil and the tree of life, we got two trees of life because we don't need the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Speaker A:I just think, Aaron, it helps people to just say, wow, the Bible is not that overwhelming.
Speaker A:And it is a story.
Speaker A:And as Rosanna said, at the end of the day, it's a love story of the extent that God has gone to get all of us back.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:Good word.
Speaker B:Good word.
Speaker B:You know, I talked about that helps us with the confusion part.
Speaker B:But in the world we live in today, there's.
Speaker B:There seems to be a ton of noise.
Speaker B:And you, you shared about the idea of wanting to read God's word, but then maybe getting distracted and maybe the noise of the world or busyness or whatever it is.
Speaker B:How have you both found in life and ministry to be able to block out that noise so you can engage in God's word and allow it to do the transformation in your heart?
Speaker A:Roseanne, you want to start because this is something that you've figured out.
Speaker C:This is.
Speaker C:I enjoy getting up in the morning when it's quiet and still dark.
Speaker C:That's my favorite time.
Speaker C:There's no noise going on at that time.
Speaker C:There's no phones ringing for me very seldom.
Speaker C:Sometimes my sister calls, but that's my quiet time.
Speaker C:But I have to admit, when my kids were little, we had four running around.
Speaker C:And for years I was like, wow, this is really hard.
Speaker C:And I had one child who got up between 5 and 6 every morning religiously.
Speaker C:He was born at 5 in the morning and woke up at that time every day.
Speaker C:So that was a real struggle for me.
Speaker C:But what I love about encountering God's love and devotions like it is you can, there are little bits.
Speaker C:You can read it.
Speaker C:In fact, we got a text from Randy's cousin the other day.
Speaker C:She doesn't live near us, but she said, I just got to tell you, I picked up this book and she said, I, I because you guys wrote it.
Speaker C:But she said, I sat down and I did two devotions straight through in about 15 minutes.
Speaker C:And she said, this is my new devotional for the year because I can do it with my kids being so small right now because I have moms of small children have little moments.
Speaker C:They don't have hours to spend on God's word.
Speaker C:So if they can grasp something in about 10 or 15 minutes sometimes, that's all we get.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So when the kids, Aaron I think Roseanne's really, really good at this.
Speaker A:I do not like it when it's dark.
Speaker A:I like it when it's light.
Speaker A:I had a professor in seminary said if God wanted us to get up in the middle of the night, he would have put a light on our head.
Speaker A:But he didn't.
Speaker A:So for someone who doesn't have the, you know, five o' clock morning devotion, you know, regimen, I do not.
Speaker A:But I think that what, what transfers, I got five things.
Speaker A:One is find a rhythm and a pattern that you look forward to in a sacred spot where you can get together and you realize that it's going to be the thing that really keeps your life anchored and not something that's a drudgery, but rather something you look forward to.
Speaker A:Number two, Roseanne said this, it's really only 15 to 20 minutes a day.
Speaker A:You know, I've got multiple degrees in theology, but when it comes to my personal time, it's about a 20 minute, maybe 30 minute for me, which includes doing a devotional like the Encountering God's Love.
Speaker A:It could be listening to scripture for us.
Speaker A:It's, it's also praying.
Speaker A:And I also, about three days a week, journal one page, you know, a letter to God just of what he impresses upon me.
Speaker A:So that's number two.
Speaker A:Number three is have a plan, you know, so don't just go into it haphazardly.
Speaker A:That's why we're excited about encountering God's love.
Speaker A:We're not the only one who's done this.
Speaker A:You just talk to somebody, find a plan and then get up.
Speaker A:You know, it's a little bit like watching a Netflix series.
Speaker A:We just finished one last night and we're like, oh, my God, we're going to watch Netflix.
Speaker A:And it takes us three days to find our next series on Netflix or whatever the streaming service is.
Speaker A:So, you know, get a plan for the year that you look forward to.
Speaker A:Number four, turn off your phone.
Speaker A:You know, just, you know, do a digital fast.
Speaker A:You know, put the phone down.
Speaker A:Roseanne and I actually did a digital fast with the congregation we serve where you actually put your phone down and it monitors how much time you're redeeming back.
Speaker A:And number five, I would say do it with somebody.
Speaker A:Find somebody.
Speaker A:It could be your mate, it could be a friend.
Speaker A:And whatever plan you pick, just have somebody else.
Speaker A:Because built into that is a sense of accountability, encouragement and conversation.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:And Randy, you, you set me up perfect for my next question for you.
Speaker B:This idea of the joys of reading scripture and community.
Speaker B:What, what have you found works and doesn't work.
Speaker B:You know that last point of doing it with somebody, what are some practical things?
Speaker B:Somebody said, yes, I love to do that, that when I'm struggling to, to make that work.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Any thoughts on that?
Speaker B:Doing it in community, doing it with somebody else.
Speaker B:And what has, what you found has been what's helped you and maybe some hindrances.
Speaker A:Yeah, I, I'll start off this one.
Speaker A:I've got about five ideas on this question.
Speaker A:You know, one is a biblical, it's a biblical practice.
Speaker A:You know, first Timothy, chapter four, verse 13.
Speaker A:Paul says, until I come back, devote yourself to the public reading of scripture and to preaching and teaching.
Speaker A:And I think in our day and age, age, maybe more in America than some of the missionaries, maybe overseas, we've gotten really fascinated with our preaching and teaching and we've edged out maybe God's word coming to us.
Speaker A:And I had a, I had a guy in New York City that I work with, is a, he's a hedge fund guide, super successful business guy, says, he says, how about you do this deal, Randy?
Speaker A:And he said it to a couple pastors.
Speaker A:How about in a 40 minute message, how about you give the God of the universe 20 minutes to speak week and then you take the other 20 minutes.
Speaker A:And we said, well, now that you put it like that, maybe we should just introduce him, you know, introduce him.
Speaker A:So, so I think that's, that, that's number one.
Speaker A:Number two is, is a stat that was given on breaking bad habits.
Speaker A:I think the stat works with breaking good habits.
Speaker A:So if you want to quit smoking, for example, and you try to do it on your own, your statistical chances of success are zero.
Speaker A:If you add a tool like a nicotine patch, your chances inch up to about 20, up 4%.
Speaker A:But if with that tool you add community, your chances skyrocket to 40%.
Speaker A:And the same thing is true with building a good habit, like getting into the scripture.
Speaker A:I think number three is accountability.
Speaker A:Anything that I do, you know, if I'm going to go to the gym and I think if I'm the only one going today, I ain't going.
Speaker A:But if I'm going to meet Bob and Joe.
Speaker A:They're going to count on me, even though I don't want to do it.
Speaker A:And then at the end, I'm like, wow, I did my.
Speaker A:But it wasn't because I wanted to.
Speaker A:It's because Bob and Joe were counting on me.
Speaker A:And then I think fresh insights.
Speaker A:You know, I think God has created the concept of getting together that new insights come out in community where it could be potentially be stale in you reading it alone.
Speaker A:It was meant to be in the New Testament.
Speaker A:They got together in first Thessalonians, Paul says, and I put you under oath by God to read this letter.
Speaker A:You know, put you under oath by God that you letter in community.
Speaker A:And then I think the last thing is shows that whenever you engage in community.
Speaker A:This is massive research, Aaron.
Speaker A:Whenever you engage in community as a chronic way of life, and then you add to that a spiritual component like God's word, that you're going to live longer and healthier lives.
Speaker A:So, yeah, if for no other reason than you want to live a healthier life or you want to live longer, you know, do it in community, man.
Speaker A:Yeah, Roseanne, you got a thought on that?
Speaker C:I just, I agree with you.
Speaker C:I. I'm more likely to be prepared and go if I know a group is coming.
Speaker C:And the real way to make sure you're going to do it is lead the group because then you have to.
Speaker C:It's worked for me.
Speaker C:It's worked for me.
Speaker B:That's good.
Speaker B:That's good.
Speaker B:Great, great idea.
Speaker B:For sure.
Speaker B:Roseanne, you have through the devotional and then as I one joys of being a podcast is you can get to research people a little bit.
Speaker B:You have a heart for women to engage intentionally with God and understand God's word and God's love for them.
Speaker B:Can you kind of.
Speaker B:Will you share that about that?
Speaker C:It stems from a passion that some.
Speaker C:Something that I realized in my own life.
Speaker C:I. I realized through a community group that we were in a home group that we had that I struggle with joy and I thought I'm a happy person.
Speaker C:I don't.
Speaker C:I don't struggle with joy, but come to find out, I really do.
Speaker C:And the people around me knew and they shared that with me that they agreed with that assessment.
Speaker C:And after I got over being upset and angry and denial, I thought about it and I thought, you know what?
Speaker C:I really do, and Randy helped me through this.
Speaker C:When my circumstances are good, I'm happy.
Speaker C:When things are in control, I'm a happy person.
Speaker C:But as soon as you throw dark Circumstances at me, and something's not going right.
Speaker C:I kind of like, I try to gain control.
Speaker C:I try to fix it.
Speaker C:I try and I get upset and angry, and it just wasn't working.
Speaker C:So the thing that really, really made a difference in my life is understanding the upper and lower story and understanding that, you know what, I'm not really in control.
Speaker C:I never have been in control.
Speaker C:So I'm giving up control, but I'm not really giving up control.
Speaker C:I'm giving up the illusion of control that I thought I had.
Speaker C:So when circumstances are dark, now I remember there's more going on than just what's happening in my life right at this moment.
Speaker C:God's got an upper story plan, and I know that he will be faithful and get me through this.
Speaker C:And I can tell you it has made me.
Speaker C:Made such a difference in my mood and how I can respond to things.
Speaker C:And I'm not dealing with anger hardly at all anymore, occasionally.
Speaker C:But, you know, you just kind of just.
Speaker C:It just has lightened my load and said, God, this is on you.
Speaker C:And to realize that God puts us.
Speaker C:Because we've moved around a bit, not as much as you probably have, but to realize God puts us exactly where he wants us for the exact time.
Speaker C:And there's a purpose to why we're in each place and space.
Speaker C: And that's Acts: Speaker C:So I try to keep that as a mindset and know that the people I come in contact with, the ladies at church that I pray with, they need to understand this as well.
Speaker C:So I want all women who really do struggle with joy, probably more than men.
Speaker C:I want every woman to experience this.
Speaker C:And I'm hoping that encountering God's love will do that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:And it gives them a great resource and as you shared earlier, a resource for them to use.
Speaker B:Maybe they're in a season of life where they don't have 45 minutes to sit down and do a Bible study that they maybe want to do.
Speaker B:But there is that season of family life that I think we all those who have had children, they know the seasons of life and there are times where you have more.
Speaker B:I'm in a season life now where my kids are out of the house and I have more time.
Speaker B:But when they were younger, it was.
Speaker C:It was crazy.
Speaker B:It's a lot.
Speaker B:And so you're just.
Speaker C:It's crazy fun.
Speaker C:But it's crazy.
Speaker B:And you're just trying to keep your head above water.
Speaker B:And at least that's what.
Speaker B:That's how I said I was just trying to keep my head above water.
Speaker B:So is a couple.
Speaker B:How have you encouraged each other to be intentional about engaging in Scripture?
Speaker B:Because I think that's one thing a couple can be.
Speaker B:They can encourage each other.
Speaker B:And sometimes they can also be a discouragement to each other, which is not what we want.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So how have you encouraged each other to remain faithful and consistent in the study of God's Word?
Speaker A:I think to have a successful marriage life.
Speaker A:And, you know, growing up in unchurched home, I saw my parents have a very defensive strategy.
Speaker A:You know, they were surviving, not thriving, because they didn't have Christ in their life.
Speaker A:And then when I did get to go to church as a teenager for the first time, I did see couples marriages that just had so much more tenderness to it.
Speaker A:So I think it begins with a vision that I want that.
Speaker A:Okay, well, how do you get that?
Speaker A:Well, I think it begins with a commitment that each of you are going to continue to grow, to become like Christ or the fruit of the Spirit, in order to give that to each other as a gift.
Speaker A:And if Roseanne and I, I have any claim to fame in what I would consider extremely successful marriage by God's grace, is that we have both continued to grow to become more like Christ.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And each step of the way has been a sense of deepening satisfaction and encouragement to us.
Speaker A:And we just discovered you can't get there without being in the Word.
Speaker A:And so like Roseanne and I have said, you know, I, you know, so I'm a pastor.
Speaker A:And so, Yeah, I spend 25 hours on a message, you know, so I get a lot of time, time preparing.
Speaker A:But for me and my personal life, 15 to 20 minutes a day.
Speaker A:Yeah, if you can get more, do that.
Speaker A:But 15 to 20 minutes a day where you encourage each other.
Speaker A:Rosanna and I do our time separately.
Speaker A:Now we actually have the benefit of writing like we sat down and wrote, you know, this new devotional together.
Speaker A:And so we do have that benefit, but in our everyday life, we do it separately.
Speaker A:But then we have the ability to come back and chat about what discoveries that we have made.
Speaker A:And so.
Speaker A:So it's really not rocket science, Aaron.
Speaker A:It's just really encouraging one another.
Speaker A:And, you know, having a dad.
Speaker A:My mom came to Christ when I was 17, but my dad did not.
Speaker A:And I watched her discourage her from going to church.
Speaker A:I watched her discourage her in her time into God's Word and she did the best she could on her own.
Speaker A:Then she got pancreatic cancer at the age of 62.
Speaker A:And I, and I watched my mom die.
Speaker A:I was there with her, and she was really scared to death.
Speaker A:Really literally scared to death because her faith had not been encouraged.
Speaker A:And I would just really encourage any couple listening that you.
Speaker A:It is, it is incumbent upon you by the responsibility of God to really fuel a pattern that encourages your mate to really become all that Christ wants him to be by being in God's word.
Speaker A:And also when it comes time for you to make that cross into the valley that you're there with a greater sense of joy because you've helped each other along the way.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:What a challenging word.
Speaker B:Challenging word.
Speaker B:So I got one, one, maybe one or two more questions for you.
Speaker B:So if you.
Speaker B:Somebody gets the devotional and they walk through this.
Speaker B:They walk through this through a year.
Speaker B:Roseanne, you've already talked about the joy that you would love to see women have.
Speaker B:We've talked about the upper and lower story.
Speaker B:Are there anything else you would want somebody to grasp from walking through the devotional if they walk through this year long.
Speaker B:This year long journey.
Speaker A:Journey.
Speaker C:I think one of the things that would, I would wish for people, especially people who grew up in the church like I did, knowing all of the stories, but just learning lessons from all the lower stories going on and not understanding how they fit into God's upper story.
Speaker C:I think one of the things that I would like for people to realize is that the Bible truly is a living organism.
Speaker C:It is changing.
Speaker C:It's alive and active.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's applicable to our lives.
Speaker C:And every time I've gone through the story, whether I'm going through it by myself in my devotions or whether I'm doing, leading a Bible study through it with women, I find new things I haven't seen before.
Speaker C:And part of that is there's so much in this book that you can't even imagine.
Speaker C:And so you find new things that you missed before.
Speaker C:And then also we are changing.
Speaker C:When your dependence on God is growing and your faith in God is growing, you're changing.
Speaker C:And so you're.
Speaker C:You're approaching the scriptures from a new perspective and a new vantage point.
Speaker C:And you're, you're not the same person that you were five years ago or three years ago or even last year because you've discovered new truths.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Good.
Speaker B:Randy?
Speaker A:I would say.
Speaker A:I would.
Speaker A:Yeah, I would say three things, really.
Speaker A:I'm the Three point sermon guy.
Speaker A:So I would say, number one, I want you to understand, we want you to understand the extent that God went to get you back, that the gospel didn't begin in Matthew, but it began at the very first pages of Scripture.
Speaker A:Number two, we want this to give you the ability to access those.
Speaker A:Access the Bible for yourself.
Speaker A:Yeah, access the Bible for yourself.
Speaker A:So when you experience this, you're going to experience the chronology of the Bible that enables you to have access to the Bible for yourself.
Speaker A:And number three, we built into the devotional a way that over 52 weeks you're going to learn how to share the story with others.
Speaker A:And I know the missionaries that are on listening or watching will get this, is that, hey, you don't want them just to help the individual, but you want to turn them into missionaries, if you will.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:What are you doing?
Speaker B:He's got, he's got all kinds of effects, man.
Speaker B:He's pulling it out for those that are listening in.
Speaker B:Randy's got, he's got all kinds of, of effects going on.
Speaker B:On the zoom, zoom recording of this last question I have for you, you're thinking, Aaron, if you were a good podcast host, you would have asked us this question.
Speaker B:Is there something, and this is just an opportunity I give people, if there's something you would like to share about the devotional, how people can access it, or another question you'd like to answer that I didn't ask, this is your opportunity and that I.
Speaker B:Then you can.
Speaker B:I would just like for one of you to pray for.
Speaker C:Yeah, I'd like to share one thing that I thought of.
Speaker C:The Encountering God's Love devotional lets you read these stories from the lower story and then tells you about the upper story going on.
Speaker C:And then we take it a step further and we encourage you to apply it to your story so it helps you think through the things that are going on in your life right now and how this, this, the things that you're learning, you learned in this story apply to your story in God's plan.
Speaker C:That's one thing I thought about, the devotional we hadn't talked about.
Speaker B:Yeah, Randy.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I would just give one more example for everybody.
Speaker A:And I would take the birth of Jesus.
Speaker A:You know, that the way it looked in the lower story, it looked like a scandal.
Speaker A:You know, Mary's pregnant.
Speaker A:She's in the little town of Nazareth.
Speaker A:Probably about 50 homes were told, maybe 200 population.
Speaker A:You know, gossip is spreading.
Speaker A:You know, she tries to tell Joseph that she, she didn't have an affair.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, right.
Speaker A:How'd you get pregnant?
Speaker A:I mean, it looks like.
Speaker A:And then, even then, you realize in the, in the upper story that it's.
Speaker A:It's not a scandal, but rather it's the solution to our scandal.
Speaker A:And that Mary could.
Speaker A:God made it.
Speaker A:The Father made it very clear to not only the residents of Nazareth, but for everybody all the way back to the prophecies of the virgin birth, that there's.
Speaker A:There needed to be evidence.
Speaker A:Matter of fact, after Joseph takes Mary to be his wife, he tells her, you're still not allowed to have any intimate relationship.
Speaker A:Relationship with her until after the baby's born.
Speaker A:There can be no doubt.
Speaker A:And then that causes you.
Speaker A:And we do this in the devotional to dig in.
Speaker A:Why is the virgin birth absolutely essential from the upper story perspective?
Speaker A:So it's just one more example that might pique the curiosity of your listeners to dive into.
Speaker A:To the.
Speaker A:This devotional.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:One of you pray for us?
Speaker A:Yes, Roseanne.
Speaker A:Well.
Speaker C:Oh, okay.
Speaker C:Oh, heavenly Father, how we love you.
Speaker C:But God, it's not even as much as you loved us.
Speaker C:Not even close, Father.
Speaker C:So we thank you for your word today and we thank you for loving us, Father.
Speaker C:Lord, I just pray for all those who are listening to this podcast.
Speaker C:Many of them are missionaries around the world, Father.
Speaker C:Many of them may be experiencing persecution.
Speaker C:So I pray that you would actually put a hedge of protection around them and don't let the enemy get them.
Speaker C:Father, I just pray that you'll be with them, that you'll guide them.
Speaker C:And Lord, I just pray that you will use encountering God's love and this podcast to further your kingdom.
Speaker C:And I ask this all in your precious and holy son's name.
Speaker C:Amen.
Speaker B:Amen.
