Whitney English on Organize First, Decorate Second: How to Go from Clutter to Creativity
Whitney English joins us on the podcast. Key takeaways:
- The podcast emphasizes the significance of sharing personal challenges, as these experiences resonate deeply with both the speaker and the audience.
- Whitney English discusses her book "Organize First, Decorate Second," which underscores the importance of prioritizing organization before aesthetics in our living spaces.
- The conversation explores the notion that everyone possesses creativity, which can manifest in various forms beyond traditional artistic endeavors, such as problem-solving and strategic thinking.
- Whitney shares her journey through entrepreneurship, highlighting how resilience and faith played critical roles during her business's bankruptcy and subsequent recovery.
- The importance of creating homes that reflect our values and tell our stories is discussed, emphasizing the need for spaces that foster connection and belonging.
- The podcast also touches on the concept of self-compassion in the context of personal organization and creativity, encouraging listeners to be gentle with themselves while striving for improvement.
Transcript
Hey there and welcome back to the Clarity podcast.
Speaker A:This podcast is all about providing clarity insight encouragement for life and mission.
Speaker A:My name is Erin Sandemier and I get to be your host.
Speaker A:Today we have the phenomenal opportunity to have with us on the podcast Whitney English and we get to sit down and learn from her.
Speaker A:Discussing a little bit about her book that's coming out.
Speaker A:Organize first, decorate second, how to go from clutter to creativity.
Speaker A:And so just very insightful conversation.
Speaker A:One thing I've learned 300 some odd episodes into this podcast is when people are willing to share challenges and the challenges they've been through, man, it really speaks to me and it really speaks to the audience.
Speaker A:I think sometimes as I started the podcast you hear people's wins and then some of us, that doesn't necessarily resonate, but when somebody's willing to share challenges.
Speaker A:So Whitney does that.
Speaker A:She shares about the challenge of one of her first businesses.
Speaker A:She's an entrepreneur, she's a creat creative, she's very gifted and talented and she's willing to share some of the challenges that she's been through on this journey and then give some real clear points on what she was able to recognize when she hit rock bottom, when the business, she went into bankruptcy.
Speaker A:Just really appreciated that.
Speaker A:And this book is just about organizing, balancing that tension between being decorative and functional and the organization.
Speaker A:Part of that I share a little bit about being lazy when it comes to creativity.
Speaker A:She was very kind to me and encouraged me in that.
Speaker A:And so I think we'll talk the reality of the we all are creative.
Speaker A:We serve a God who's a creative God that lives within us.
Speaker A:And so how we can walk in that and make our homes a place that tell our story and that's one of the things she'll share is we want people when they come into our home to feel welcome, that they belong, they matter and they're known, they feel loved and that our home tells our story.
Speaker A:And so to make sure the things we have in there are telling our story and telling it well.
Speaker A:So just really appreciate Whitney being on the podcast.
Speaker A:Do want to ask you to continue to subscribe to the podcast and know the podcast I subscribe to.
Speaker A:They're the ones I listen to.
Speaker A:They come out on Monday or Tuesday and I know what I'm going to be listening to throughout the week.
Speaker A:Do want to ask you to continue Send in your questions for Backchannel with Foeth.
Speaker A:That's where we get to sit down with Dick Foth and get to learn from him.
Speaker A:Always A joy to have Dick on the podcast.
Speaker A:And just want to remind you, my book, A Caring Family came out in December.
Speaker A:It's a book that I wish I.
Speaker A:I would have read a long time ago, before my kids were out of the house.
Speaker A:You know, I spent a lot of my early years when my kids were still at home chasing education, chasing adventure, chasing degrees, and in the reality of it, as Arthur Brooks would say, missed those opportunities.
Speaker A:I was becoming unique and special, but was missing the opportunity to be loved, to know.
Speaker A:Well, there's no time better than now to get started.
Speaker A:So here we go.
Speaker A:Greetings and welcome back to the Clarity podcast.
Speaker A:So excited to have a new friend of the podcast with us today.
Speaker A:Whitney.
Speaker A:Whitney, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker B:Hi.
Speaker B:Thanks for having me.
Speaker B:I'm excited to be here.
Speaker A:Whitney is very kind.
Speaker A:We had a little technological thing going on this morning.
Speaker A:My fault.
Speaker A:And she's.
Speaker A:I've learned that she's patient and kind, and so I'm thankful that she has been patient and kind with me.
Speaker A:Whitney, will you share a little bit about yourself before I jump in to start asking you some questions?
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:I live in Oklahoma.
Speaker B:I am married for 17 years.
Speaker B:We have three kids.
Speaker B:Ages.
Speaker B:Hang on.
Speaker B:I have to recalibrate in my head.
Speaker B:15, 14, and 12.
Speaker B:So we're in.
Speaker B:We're in the thick of it.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's.
Speaker B:That's what's important.
Speaker B:That's the part of me that's important.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, that's.
Speaker A:And that's why I asked people to share about what's important to them, because I used to do introductions and would share what I thought was important.
Speaker A:Important, and sometimes that wasn't.
Speaker A:So it's.
Speaker A:It's great to hear the things that are dear to your heart and the things that are important, and those are fun ages for your busy times, but fun ages.
Speaker A:Yeah, for your kids.
Speaker A:My kids are a little older.
Speaker A:My daughter's going to turn 21 to the end of this month, and my son's 18, so it go.
Speaker A:It goes by quick.
Speaker A:So, Whitney, amongst many other things, you mentioned you're a wife and you are a mother, but you're also a father.
Speaker A:Female entrepreneur.
Speaker A:So what is, what are some of the joys and challenges of being an entrepreneur?
Speaker A:And specifically maybe one that happens to be a female?
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:So I started my first business whenever I was 22.
Speaker B:It was right after 9, 11.
Speaker B:I have a degree in interior design and always kind of thought that I would go to college and meet a guy and get married and decorate a house in that order.
Speaker B:And you Know, a broken heart in college happened, and then 911 happened, and that kind of took the bottom out of the interior design industry, especially being young and in the startup side of things.
Speaker B:And so I moved back home, moved in with my parents, started working at a stationary store that I had worked out all the way through high school and college.
Speaker B:And people started saying I was doing custom invitations for my boss at the store, and people started saying, you should just go into business doing this.
Speaker B:And thankfully, my boss at the time saw talent and he showed me how to sort of navigate the wholesale side of the market.
Speaker B:So at 22, I was designing invitations and I employed two skills to do that.
Speaker B:One was the artistic angle of, like, actually drawing them.
Speaker B:And the second was writing.
Speaker B:Actually, I've always loved to write.
Speaker B:And I would come up with these.
Speaker B:These ridiculously sarcastic and clever poems to go on the front of someone's birthday party invitation.
Speaker B:You know, just something that would speak to, you know, their personality and really reflect them.
Speaker B:And so I enjoyed that.
Speaker B:And that business was fabulous.
Speaker B:Until it wasn't.
Speaker B:The market shifted.
Speaker B:We had technology come in from, really from both sides.
Speaker B:I mean, it got easier for people to print their own invitations at home, and so they didn't need to go into a retail space to do that or they could order them online from.
Speaker B:So they were.
Speaker B:They're making their own or ordering them for a bigger player that we couldn't compete with.
Speaker B:And we ended up filing bankruptcy on that business, which was an incredibly humbling experience and something I still talk about and write about a lot today.
Speaker B:In fact, I mentioned it in my first book.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:But after that, I had always had this idea for a planner and really had a deep desire for a redemption story, you know, just kind of felt like a failure.
Speaker B:I mean, it.
Speaker B:Nobody likes that feeling.
Speaker B:And so designed this planner and launched it.
Speaker B:We were selling them on Etsy, and one thing led to another and it started to get this crazy cult following.
Speaker B:And then somebody emailed and said, have you ever thought about having your products in Target?
Speaker B:And I was like, well, no, now that you mention it.
Speaker B:Like, let's talk, let's discuss.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so that led to licensing partnership, which then led to the sale of the company.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's just been.
Speaker B:It's been 20.
Speaker B: tarted that first business in: Speaker B:It's been 23 years of entrepreneurship.
Speaker B:Easter famine, I like to say.
Speaker B:And most recently, I have return to that author and artist role with my second book launching on April 29th.
Speaker B:And then just a Growing roster of clients in the licensing and design space, which is really interesting.
Speaker B:Not necessarily interior design, but similar.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:You mentioned earlier on this, the idea of the starting and then have to walk through that bankruptcy, and you said you've written about it and shared about it.
Speaker A:Many of the people that listen to this podcast have, you know, maybe felt that God was calling to do something.
Speaker A:They went a certain direction, and it didn't end up the way they thought it was going to go, and they end up in a space.
Speaker A:And that was.
Speaker A:You know, that's my story, too.
Speaker A:I went to Burkina Faso to work with people with HIV and AIDS and ended up being sick more than I was anything.
Speaker A:And so how did.
Speaker A:How did you bounce?
Speaker A:How did you have resiliency in that space when it didn't end up the way you thought or you thought it was going to.
Speaker A:To break, bounce back and then to continue moving on rather than just giving up?
Speaker A:Because being an entrepreneur, it's not.
Speaker A:It's not easy, but you've bounced and you've moved it forward.
Speaker A:Could.
Speaker A:Would you be willing to share about that?
Speaker B:Yeah, I think there are a couple of things people don't tell you about rock bottom.
Speaker B:One of.
Speaker B:One of those things is that it is a firm foundation from which to, like, push off of, you know.
Speaker B:The second thing they don't tell you about it is that the water is really clear down there.
Speaker B:I mean, there's a lot of clarity when you are at the end of your rope, you know, just trying to hang on.
Speaker B:What comes into very sharp focus is what matters.
Speaker B:And it.
Speaker B:It, in some ways, it becomes survival.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And it's in those times that I find myself turning to the Lord more often.
Speaker B:And I see him using those experiences as refining moments in my life.
Speaker B:I'd rather go the rest of my life without any of them.
Speaker B:Lord, like.
Speaker B:But for whatever reason, I can at least be grateful that he's using those to shape me and mold me into the kind of person that he's designed me to be, that he's created me to be.
Speaker B:And, oh, I thought I had one more thing in there, but that might be the end of it.
Speaker B:Yeah, that was pretty good, right?
Speaker A:No, it was excellent.
Speaker A:It's excellent.
Speaker A:And it.
Speaker A:And as you said, you know, I think those trying times in my life, they're not places I'd ever want to return to, like, voluntarily, because they were the hardest times in my life.
Speaker A:But at the same time, I wouldn't be the person today without going through there.
Speaker A:And I think those times and I think it honestly gives me empathy and compassion for others because if I hadn't walked through it myself, I would have maybe made some character judgments or maybe assigned motives to people and thought maybe if you would have just worked harder or you would have just been smarter or you would have been some of these things.
Speaker A:But I consider myself, you know, not super smart, but generally smart and, you know, very hardworking.
Speaker A:And so I think it.
Speaker A:Walking through that myself, those seasons have just given me a lot greater compassion for other people and maybe a lot less judgmental and a lot more, as you said, about when things are clear, recognizing that firm foundation that we have in Christ and that we have faith and recognize the things that matter.
Speaker A:So, no, those were excellent.
Speaker A:Excellent and really resonated with me.
Speaker A:So thanks for letting me get off script there.
Speaker A:You mentioned it.
Speaker A:I thought, man, I'll be at people email me saying, hey, you should have asked this question.
Speaker A:So I just went ahead.
Speaker A:Nasty.
Speaker A:That was good.
Speaker A:So you share about organize first decorate.
Speaker A:What are some of the reasons that you put those.
Speaker A:It's in that order.
Speaker B:So with this background in interior design and just a passion for home, I.
Speaker B:I love the beauty of it.
Speaker B:But like most good things in life, it feels like there's a tension in there.
Speaker B:And I'm learning to recognize that when I feel that tension in life, that, that there.
Speaker B:There's something.
Speaker B:There's something very.
Speaker B:I don't know if the word is holy or sacred or precious, but there's just.
Speaker B:There's.
Speaker B:There's a lesson in there.
Speaker B:There's.
Speaker B:There's a.
Speaker B:There feels like there's a boundary.
Speaker B:It feels like there may be some principles at play, but it feels like there's just.
Speaker B:God's going to be someplace in that mix.
Speaker B:And God is a God of order.
Speaker B:We know that without effort applied to something, we, you know, there.
Speaker B:We all experience entropy at the world experience.
Speaker B:You know, the world experiences entropy.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So I'm just this very creative person.
Speaker B:I've love beautiful things.
Speaker B:I love history.
Speaker B:I love.
Speaker B:I just love all the things.
Speaker B:Very, very enneagram7 if you.
Speaker B:If any of your audience references that.
Speaker B:But as we all know, a car doesn't run if it just looks good.
Speaker B:It has to work well under the hood.
Speaker B:And I grew up with this very aesthetically oriented mother and an engineer father.
Speaker B:And so I think that's where my attention comes from.
Speaker B:And so one day I was putzing around the house trying to restore order, and I thought I was probably trying to decorate something when I should have been organizing it.
Speaker B:And in my head, the little message that, you know, bleeped across the ticker tape was organized first, decorate second, like, let's put this in the proper order.
Speaker B:And so when we started to explore next book ideas, that was one that my editor said, let's see where this one goes.
Speaker B:And it's been fun to write.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So when you, when you use the words decorate and organize and decorate, what comes to your mind when with organize and decorate those two words?
Speaker B:Well, I think most like somebody says organize.
Speaker B:If you're in my spot, which is female, with several kids and a household to rent, you're thinking, you're.
Speaker B:You're thinking like, box.
Speaker B:You're thinking container store, like, let me go to Walmart or like, whatever and buy all the bins and baskets to put this stuff in.
Speaker B:And I know a lot of your audience is.
Speaker B:Is very global.
Speaker B:And I've traveled for missions or vision trips is, I think, what they're calling them more lately than mission trip.
Speaker B:And I've seen, you know, the homes in other parts of the world, and it's not necessarily those.
Speaker B:Those organize and decorate things tend to be, I think, a very Western approach to things.
Speaker B:But at the same time, I will never forget walking into a mud hut in Africa.
Speaker B:And man, was that place not organized like dirt floor, but impeccably clean dirt floor.
Speaker B:I don't know how you have a clean.
Speaker B:That is dirt floor, but it was.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And the pride on that mama's face, as she, you know, showed me, you know, and so you end up finding the.
Speaker B:The beauty and the, the decorative stuff in the stories.
Speaker B:I think it's less about the aesthetic beauty and the surface that we would typically think about beauty and decoration here in the United States.
Speaker B:And I think it's deeper than that.
Speaker B:I hope the book reflects that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's the reality.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:The first time I saw somebody sweeping a dirt floor.
Speaker A:But, man, it is impeccably clean.
Speaker A:And an amazing thing to see.
Speaker A:Amazing thing to see.
Speaker B:It is really cool.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So how does.
Speaker A:You know, maybe you talked about that tension point in your.
Speaker A:Not tension point.
Speaker A:We had a father who was an engineer and your mother who aesthetically focused.
Speaker A:So how can organizing lead to creativity?
Speaker A:Because you would kind of.
Speaker A:In some ways, I would think those would be opposites.
Speaker A:They wouldn't be something that could have a catalystic or a synergistic effect.
Speaker A:But I would say they were competing.
Speaker A:But you share that, actually, they.
Speaker A:That organizing can help lead to creativity.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, and there have been studies that have been done countless studies that talk about how clutter is better for our brains and anything that's better for our brains is going to be better for our creativity.
Speaker B:There's also a certain.
Speaker B:This kind of goes back to the constraints and the idea of tension.
Speaker B:But there's a certain amount of resourcefulness that create that, or there's a certain amount of creativity that comes from.
Speaker B:That comes out of necessity.
Speaker B:It's this resourcefulness that.
Speaker B:Let me see, like, how can I.
Speaker B:What do I have that I can work with here?
Speaker B:How can I use what I've got, start where I am, work with what I have?
Speaker B:I mean, if God has given us everything that we need, there's usually a really creative way to.
Speaker B:To approach that.
Speaker B:Even if.
Speaker B:But it does have it.
Speaker B:You do kind of have to be organized.
Speaker B:I remember this one time I found myself in a tight spot and I thought, okay, be resourceful.
Speaker B:I was at home without a car for some reason, like, somebody had the car.
Speaker B:I didn't.
Speaker B:Didn't have any money.
Speaker B:And I needed coffee desperately.
Speaker B:I desperately needed coffee.
Speaker B:And it was.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:So I just started thinking.
Speaker B:I was like, okay, where am I going to get.
Speaker B:I didn't have a credit card or anything.
Speaker B:I mean, it was just.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker B:Maybe.
Speaker B:Maybe we were moving or something.
Speaker B:I don't even remember.
Speaker B:I remember what house we were at.
Speaker B:But I thought, okay, there has got to be some pocket change around here.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:I scrounged around until I found enough change.
Speaker B:And there was this little health food bar place kind of within walking distance of the house.
Speaker B:And I was like, I think they have coffee.
Speaker B:And I walked over there and got so in.
Speaker B:In America, that's a.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker B:You normally, like, get in your car and drive to coffee and put it on a credit card.
Speaker B:Like it.
Speaker B:You.
Speaker B:I had to be very in.
Speaker B:So you're exercising those creative faculties in your head when you.
Speaker B:When you find those constraints.
Speaker B:And I think that when we organize things, we're.
Speaker B:We're kind of putting constraints around things.
Speaker B:We're putting things in buckets and we're straightening them, and we're.
Speaker B:We're putting those boundaries in place that are going to help.
Speaker B:Help us exercise our.
Speaker B:And steward our gift in a better way down the road.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think for me, you know, I get easily overwhelmed when things are disorganized.
Speaker A:So it's very hard for me to think creatively if there's so much going on around me.
Speaker A:I get focused on what's not in order.
Speaker A:So it allows me to think of that and Then I think, you know, what you're sharing too, is also, we serve a God who has created order in the.
Speaker A:And he's also creative.
Speaker A:And so I think that those things fashion out of that just to, as we follow, obviously follow him, that he.
Speaker A:That we do have a world, that he's organized, that he's put into motion, he's put into place.
Speaker A:But at the same time, he's a creative God that's given us the creative abilities.
Speaker A:I think my, my challenge with being creative is I used to say I wasn't creative.
Speaker A:And someone challenged me and told me that I was just not willing to put the energy into it.
Speaker A:And I was lazy.
Speaker A:It wasn't.
Speaker A:I wasn't creative.
Speaker A:I was just lazy.
Speaker A:Ooh.
Speaker A:Which was hard to hear, but true.
Speaker A:Sometimes, you know, the things you hear hard to hear because they're true, but that's just, that's just the reality of it.
Speaker A:So that kind of leads me into my next question that I have for you.
Speaker A:You share that all of us are creative, but some of us are forgotten.
Speaker A:I, you know, just share my story that I.
Speaker A:Somebody told me I was lazy.
Speaker A:You didn't say lazy.
Speaker A:I said I was.
Speaker A:The other person told me I was lazy.
Speaker A:But, but you share that we're.
Speaker A:All of us are creative, but some of us forgotten.
Speaker A:Could you share more about this?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So we, if we are all created in the image of God, we are all creative.
Speaker B:I mean, he is the Creator and He's given us gifts and things to use.
Speaker B:And I think a lot of times we think creative means, oh, I can draw, I can, you know, paint or I can decorate.
Speaker B:And it doesn't.
Speaker B:It might mean that you are going to look at a bunch of business numbers and be able to plug them in and create a strategy that is going to dig somebody out of bankruptcy or something.
Speaker B:You know, there's.
Speaker B:We all have.
Speaker B:And I think that that's one of the beautiful things about the body of Christ.
Speaker B:Like, somebody's good at one thing, somebody else is good at another thing.
Speaker B:And when it all works together, you have a really beautiful creation.
Speaker B:So we're definitely participating in God.
Speaker B:We are co creators with him in that capacity.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:So I do think that when some people say I'm not creative, I wouldn't call it lazy.
Speaker B:I feel like that's super critical.
Speaker B:But I would say that you're underestimating your own rocket science.
Speaker B:You know, you're thinking that your gifts and your skills are common sense when they would really, you know, benefit somebody Else.
Speaker B:And I think you're just counting the gifts and abilities that God's probably given you when you say you're not creative because he's given you something to participate, you know, in his, in what he's doing in the world.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Any words for encouragement?
Speaker A:You mentioned earlier on about being a mother, the kids home, the many roles that you play, and there's some busyness in that.
Speaker A:Any.
Speaker A:Maybe there's some, maybe it's a stay at home father, maybe it's a stay at home mother, I don't know.
Speaker A:But maybe they just feel like, hey, I'm so busy, I got so much going on.
Speaker A:I used to have an opportunity to be creative, but I don't have time for that today.
Speaker A:Any words of encouragement for them today on being creative and not laying that aside because as you said, that's who God created this to be.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:I think anytime we look at a problem and try to solve it, I think a lot of times we, there, I mean there tend to be two types of people, people who really just want to, who want to reach their goals and then there are people who will kind of stop and solve problems.
Speaker B:This is just a theory, but I think that those of us who say, okay, this is kind of a problem, this is an obstacle, I need to overcome this.
Speaker B:I think that when we, when we look at those things, we are exercising creative skills.
Speaker B:So for a mom or a stay at home dad or somebody who just feels like they're in the trenches, I would say look for the obstacle, you know, what's preventing you from moving toward a goal and then problem solve that.
Speaker B:That's going to require, that's going to require you to use the creative side of your brain to find a solution to, to eliminate that problem.
Speaker B:It might be that you have to figure out how to do X number of loads of laundry before 3:00 or that you have a bunch of errands to run.
Speaker B:And you know, I always, in those moments try to remember that I have the power of the Holy Spirit living inside me and that I can rely on that, that I don't have to do this on my own.
Speaker B:So I'm not saying like tackle it, you know, with iron muscle and grit and determination.
Speaker B:I, I think that they're, But I am saying, you go to the Lord and you say, okay, I've got to figure out how to solve this problem.
Speaker B:I have to figure out how to work out this issue.
Speaker B:And I need, I need some direction.
Speaker B:And I think that creativity will be employed in that it Might just be like I've been doing this challenge for people who pre order the book this week where I go around different spots in my house and I'm just organizing like one thing like just under the kitchen sink or it was the kids memory cabinet or my, I have a little painting station out in the garage that I'm going to organize later today.
Speaker B:And I mean it's, it's amazing how simply organizing something does require you to kind of think creatively.
Speaker B:You do have to sort of creative problem solve.
Speaker B:And then you're putting orders that space in a beautifully ordered any.
Speaker B:I mean a well ordered anything is beautiful.
Speaker A:So that's good word, good word.
Speaker A:And kind of one of the other things you share is about the difference between goal setting versus goal living.
Speaker A:So, so what can that kind of segues in.
Speaker A:So what's the difference between the two too between goal setting and versus go living.
Speaker A:And how does, how does an understanding of this impact our daily lives?
Speaker B:So I wrote about this in my first book which was called A More Beautiful Life.
Speaker B:And I, after that bankruptcy happened, I, I found myself really trying to white knuckle my way out of that, that hole.
Speaker B:And that involved smart goals which most everybody has heard of that goals have to be specific and measurable.
Speaker B:All these things, right?
Speaker B:And I had just done that over and over and over again and I looked at where I was like I said there's a lot of clarity at rock bottom.
Speaker B:And I was like, I don't think that's working anymore.
Speaker B:I need a different framework for this.
Speaker B:And so I, because I am creative and need mnemonic devices to help me remember things, I came up with this acronym of heart and it stands for help yourself.
Speaker B:First, your physical well being, Empower yourself.
Speaker B:Second, your emotional, spiritual and mental well being, your edification, all your people.
Speaker B:Third, the idea of asking yourself what do the people around me need?
Speaker B:Then tackling my resources and responsibilities, managing my financial resources and my responsibilities.
Speaker B:And then last I called it trade and talent.
Speaker B:The idea of pursuing work related things then and anytime.
Speaker B:So that new that the acronym helps me remember those five things.
Speaker B:And I realized the more I applied that and I would apply it in the middle of the day, a day would be going wrong and I would just stop and I'd be like, okay, what do I need physically?
Speaker B:What do I need emotionally, mentally, spiritually?
Speaker B:What do my people need?
Speaker B:What do what, what responsibilities need to be managed that I might be avoiding because creatives love to avoid responsibilities.
Speaker B:And then very last, let's talk about goals like let's put the smart goals in that very last category and leave them there and make sure that we've taken care of all this other stuff first.
Speaker B:And so then I would apply it to my week be like, I would just look at a weekly overview and think, okay, how can I, you know, take care of myself first?
Speaker B:And I, I don't do it in the middle of a day as much as I have sometimes in the past, but it is it time and time again becomes a great fallback.
Speaker B:That acronym of okay, things feel off balance.
Speaker B:What do I need to do to get back on balance?
Speaker B:Well, I need to start by taking care of my body.
Speaker B:Like plain and like, that's it.
Speaker B:I have to have sleep and water and nutrition and movement and if something feels off and really and truly if, when I start trying to rebalance my life, I'll get to, I'll get through those first three.
Speaker B:And usually the answer is in one of those first three letters.
Speaker B:And so that's the idea of goal living is like not just, not just saying, okay, I'm going to achieve this thing out here, but what am I doing in the day to day and in the present moment that's enabling me to pursue those goals for the long run.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's good, it's good.
Speaker A:It stuck out to me.
Speaker A:So I wanted to make sure.
Speaker A:I ask you.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So having things and then understanding their meaning or their story and their worth and kind of why we're keeping them around, how does this work?
Speaker A:You know, I think at least in my life, I know people that are either get rid of everything or people keep everything.
Speaker A:And there's probably people that are listening in this, in between, but, but majority of people are one side or the other.
Speaker A:So how do we now how do.
Speaker A:That's another tension.
Speaker A:How do we walk through that and then how do we understand in getting to the root of the what, what story, what their worth is and why we're keeping them around?
Speaker A:Because it's hard to be organized if we're full of clutter and we don't really know why those things are there.
Speaker B:Yeah, 100%.
Speaker B:Yeah, there is a tension back to that mama in her hut, you know, like there's not much in there.
Speaker B:You know, I've got plates hanging on the wall behind me like it's decoration everywhere.
Speaker B:And she had like a curtain that I don't know functions for what.
Speaker B:But there things have meaning.
Speaker B:And I think I, I wonder if you've talked to anybody else on your podcast about this, but I see this, this trend in conversation and philosophy happening, the idea of, from the idea of postmodernism to we're in more of a meta modernist.
Speaker B:I'm getting really philosophical.
Speaker B:Am I, have you, are you familiar with this?
Speaker A:No, it sounds good.
Speaker A:Keep, keep going.
Speaker B:Okay, so back in the 90s, we were in the middle.
Speaker B:If you think about an example that I've seen used is an example of the jars of claysong flood.
Speaker B:Are you familiar with that?
Speaker B:It's very postmodern.
Speaker B:It's very grungy and dark and moody.
Speaker B: And if you think back to the: Speaker B:So that kind of gives you an idea of where I was taught that the world.
Speaker B:I went to a private Christian school.
Speaker B:I was taught that the world was going to try to teach me that truth was relative.
Speaker B:And so I was armed as a good Christian student with all the tools to argue that truth is not relative, that that God is the ultimate truth, and that if what's right for you is right for me, then we're all going to be so open minded that our brains are falling out.
Speaker B:That was the phrasing that was used.
Speaker B:And so what happened?
Speaker B:I, I think what's happened culturally and I think that you can see, see this, I think you can see this across the globe first in probably some, you know, fringe, fringe out there, philosophical discussions.
Speaker B:But I feel like the conversation is moving more mainstream.
Speaker B:The idea that, that has, if, if the world took on that truth, it's relative philosophy, then it's kind of left us without meaning as culturally so from a society that everything is meaningless.
Speaker B:If what's right for you is right for you, and what's right for me is right for me, then it's just, it's all meaningless.
Speaker B:We kind of threw the baby out with the bathwater.
Speaker B:I even see it in evangelicalism and there is a very interesting return and a shift to orthodox Christianity that I'm starting to see.
Speaker B:And it's interesting because it's almost like it's the pendulum swing to that everything is relative and nothing, everything is meaningless movement.
Speaker B:It's like people are starting to realize, no, I need this to be meaningful.
Speaker B:And, and, and one of the things that things give us meaning.
Speaker B:You know, the, the, the plates hanging on the wall behind me represent trips and history and stories and the patterns on the china represent thing.
Speaker B:I mean, and you know, you could ask me a question about anything in my house and I would say I, I could, I could come up with a story for you.
Speaker B:I might have to check Wikipedia to get my dates right and make sure the facts.
Speaker B:But I mean, it's.
Speaker B:It's full of interesting things which.
Speaker B:And they can't be too precious.
Speaker B:I mean that there's also a lot of chips on the china on the wall behind me.
Speaker B:When you buy chip china, it's cheaper.
Speaker B:Try saying that 10 times fast.
Speaker B:And I also say that nothing can be the things can't be more precious than the people.
Speaker B:You know, it's if.
Speaker B:If something breaks or if a friend spills a glass of wine, I'm tossed in her dish towel.
Speaker B:I'm not flipping out about this at all.
Speaker B:Even if I did just have something reupholstered and whatever.
Speaker B:I mean, it just.
Speaker B:That becomes part of the provenance and the story of the thing.
Speaker B:And so there's this.
Speaker B:I see culturally this shift from this, like, everything is meaningless to this more.
Speaker B:It is the, the term that I'm.
Speaker B:I've heard it used, that I've heard used is this metamodern idea which.
Speaker B:This idea of like, it feels like the.
Speaker B:At least the secular world is exploring this idea that maybe there is a natural principle, maybe there is a moral order to the universe.
Speaker B:Maybe things do work better.
Speaker B:Maybe truth isn't relative.
Speaker B:You know, I kind of see that happening, and I think I.
Speaker B:I actually think that things.
Speaker B:The, the idea of the symbolism we see in the orthodox and liturgical faith practices, I being in Oklahoma, I jokingly say that the Book of Common Prayer, just when they had to pick between two books, when they were loading the land run wagon, they.
Speaker B:They had to pick one of.
Speaker B:They picked the Bible, they picked the right book, you know, but what, what was left?
Speaker B:You know, that in our American practicality and pragmatism, you know, what have we left?
Speaker B:You strip all that stuff away, you still have the Gospel, you know, but that doesn't mean that.
Speaker B:That across in a church doesn't add depth to a sacred experience.
Speaker B:You know, it.
Speaker B:It really is that things can give.
Speaker B:Can elevate the mundane to the sacred.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because they can contribute meaning.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Interesting conversation.
Speaker A:Interesting conversation, right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I can make you think it does.
Speaker A:It does.
Speaker A:You share about our homes having a living narrative.
Speaker A:What do you mean by living narrative?
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:And then you talk about how form and function fit into this living narrative.
Speaker A:So could you just share about those concepts?
Speaker B:Yeah, I think I kind of touched on that a little bit.
Speaker B:Just this idea that my home is not.
Speaker B:Even though I want it to be beautiful and interesting, it's.
Speaker B:It's not designed to be a museum.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And if it has to be usable, it has to be functional.
Speaker B:And there are like funny, funny things that you can do.
Speaker B:I was at dinner with a friend one time and she told me that she takes, she decants every, you know, some people, some people decant their pantries.
Speaker B:There's, there's a big debate on decant or not decant.
Speaker B:And she told me that she hated labels.
Speaker B:And so she decanted her shampoo in the shower and put it in clear glass bottles.
Speaker B:She didn't have any kids.
Speaker B:I instantly thought, okay, I can't, I can't do that.
Speaker B:But it, it did sort of alert me to this idea that there are a lot of things in our lives that have labels on them and you, you take the labels off and that you, you have a more decluttered space.
Speaker B:We don't even, we don't think about that very often because we're sort of programmed to buy the brands that we like.
Speaker B:I like Tide dishwashings or dawn dishwashing soap and Tide laundry soap or whatever.
Speaker B:But there are little things like that that I think that you can do to eliminate the visual clutter.
Speaker B:As much as I love visual clutter.
Speaker B:But I do, I do like it to be more story.
Speaker B:This idea of if you, if we do love to host people from church and things like that, the neighbors and just build community and things like that.
Speaker B:And one of the kids that comes over quite a bit is autistic and sometimes he will just start asking questions and it, you just end up down this rabbit hole with him.
Speaker B:But I realized that he's asking questions about the pieces in our house.
Speaker B:I love antiques and things like that.
Speaker B:And it's an opportunity to build a relationship with him and let him know that he's seen and heard and known and loved and his questions aren't strange.
Speaker B:And just because he's interested in, you know, normally it's the moms that are asking about the painting on the wall or where did I get that kitchen tile.
Speaker B:And you know, he'll ask about artwork or something.
Speaker B:It's just so fascinating.
Speaker B:But, and I hope my home tells the story of the people who live here and what matters to them.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's good stuff.
Speaker A:Good stuff.
Speaker A:One last question for you, then I'm going to ask you to pray for us.
Speaker A:You talk about, share about self compassion and decorating.
Speaker A:What, what does having self compassion and decorating and then how does that, how does that speak to our lives today?
Speaker B:I think that kind of back to what you Were saying about, well, you didn't think you were creative.
Speaker B:And so then that felt lazy.
Speaker B:It, you know, I think that's where the self compassion comes in, is we can all learn things about things that we don't know.
Speaker B:I'm never going to be a math whiz, but I can still listen to investment podcast and learn something about it.
Speaker B:I'm never going to be a theologian, but I can listen to spiritual podcasts and, and learn and even just get to the point where you understand the language enough to have a conversation about it.
Speaker B:I also think that especially in the organizing space, there's a lot of language around the idea of giving yourself grace.
Speaker B:And I have found tension in that because I can give myself all the grace in the world.
Speaker B:Like I can just go, I could go get back in bed, grace, grace upon grace.
Speaker B:And I'm like, that doesn't keep the wheels running, you know, that doesn't keep the engine running.
Speaker B:We got it.
Speaker B:And so, so I think that my book organize first, decorate second, while I fully adopt the idea that our homes are temporary.
Speaker B:In so many ways they don't matter, but in so many ways they can point us toward something that does matter in how we, how we use them.
Speaker B:So just answer that question.
Speaker A:Yeah, it does.
Speaker A:And I think it speaks to the realities of compassion on ourselves.
Speaker A:I think they also.
Speaker A:When you talk about our homes, what resonates with me is we as Christians, we want the people to, when they come in, to feel the presence of God in our life.
Speaker A:We talked about the things that matter and to our family and to who we are as people.
Speaker A:And the hospitality that you talked about having people over, I think it gives us opportunities to share our story, to invite people in.
Speaker A:And as you shared, we want people to feel like they belong, they matter, they're known and they're loved.
Speaker A:And that gives us an opportunity to do that in a place that we feel comfortable.
Speaker A:Comfortable in doing that.
Speaker A:So any questions I should have asked before I asked you to pray for you if you're think you're thinking, man, Aaron, if you're a really good podcast coast, you would ask this question and you didn't ask it.
Speaker A:So this is your opportunity.
Speaker A:Any questions I should have asked you when your book comes out and then I'm going to ask you to pray for us.
Speaker B:I don't have any questions, but I do want to share a quote.
Speaker B:I talked about this in the final chapter of the book by C.S.
Speaker B:lewis, and it is the fact that our hearts yearn for something earth can't supply is proof that heaven must be our home.
Speaker B:So I just wanted to.
Speaker A:Yeah, share that good word.
Speaker A:Will you pray for us?
Speaker B:I will.
Speaker B:I have.
Speaker B:This is a prayer that I wrote just the other day about home.
Speaker B:So I'll share it with you guys.
Speaker B:Creator of order and beauty, Grant us the wisdom to discern what truly matters in our homes and life.
Speaker B:Help us to clear away the clutter that clouds our vision and help help us create spaces that nurture our souls.
Speaker B:May our hands work with purpose as we organize, finding meaning in each item we choose to keep and grace in what we release.
Speaker B:Guide us to build homes that tell our authentic stories.
Speaker B:Not perfect showcases, but living testimonies to the lives we cherish, the values we hold dear and the work you are doing in our lives.
Speaker B:As we tend to our physical spaces, may we also nurture the interior rooms of our heart, finding that true beauty emerges when we align our surroundings with you.
Speaker B:Help us to create homes where all who enter feel seen, heard, known and loved.
Speaker B:Where warmth welcomes, light illuminates, and where the rhythm of order brings freedom and not constraint.
Speaker B:In the patina of the well worn and the glow of the treasured, help us to glimpse something of your eternal beauty, remembering that our earthly homes are but shadows of the greater home that awaits us and your son.
Speaker B:Thank.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker A:Amen.
